Other/Mixed Retinal detachment and tension

[AJ_]

Hi,

I'd like to ask you for an advice. I've got a strong myopia and was told by my doctor not to lift heavy weights as this may cause my retina to detach. So for about two years now I've been practicing TGUs, push ups, pull ups and avoid things such as very heavy dead lifts (I simply take lighter but still moderately heavy weight).

My problem is that I'm not sure about tension level appropriate for my retina. Of course the moderate weights I am practicing with still require me to generate some tension. This worries me and affects the quality of my reps since I am probably overly cautious. On the other hand, I want to train to get in better shape, not worse.

I discussed this with several other doctors but they just told me I can lift weights and just avoid very heavy loads. But none of them was able to tell me what is actually light and what is too heavy.

I'd like to know whether some of you has experience with this and how you dealt with it. Or if there's some scientific study from which I could deduct the information of how to decide what's safe for me and what's not.

Thanks a lot.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@AJ
In the litterature I just read on your issue (I am not medic), there is almost no indication about a weight you should not exceed.

However, this article:
Eye Problems from Weightlifting and the prevention section can interest you:
Isokinetic and aerobic exercises can reduce intraocular pressure in the eye considerably. Aerobic exercises have also been known to help in increasing the flow of blood pressure to the eye. If you can ensure that you do exercises that increase the pulse rate by about 25 percent, you can be sure that the pressure in the eye is being reduced. People who indulge in moderate to heavy exercises for a period of three months can significantly decrease pressure in their eyes.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Steve Freides]

@AJ_ , welcome to StrongFirst.

It's not clear from your first post whether you have a retina issue or just that you're very near-sighted and your doctor thinks lifting heavy weights is dangerous. This is an important point to clarify.

-S-

 

[AJ_]

@AJ_ , welcome to StrongFirst.

It's not clear from your first post whether you have a retina issue or just that you're very near-sighted and your doctor thinks lifting heavy weights is dangerous. This is an important point to clarify.

-S-

Thanks Steve, to answer your question - I'm just very near-sighted (-11,5 on both eyes).

 

[Steve Freides]

I am not a doctor, but I am near-sighted, and I am not aware of any connection between nearsightedness and retinal detachment, nor am I aware of any dangers associated with weight lifting for those who share our poor vision, @AJ_.

You really need to see another doctor for a second opinion. In the meantime, do your own research online - I don't think you'll find much because this is the first I'm hearing of this, but I could be wrong since I've never looked. I would be interested to see links to any relevant studies you find.

Minus 11-1/2 - that is pretty nearsighted, I must say. I wore minus 5 for a number of years but am fortunate that my vision has actually improved several times in my life and I only wear about half that now. If memory serves, minus 20 qualifies as legally blind, or at least it used to.

Best of luck to you, and please do report back on what a second doctor says. In particular, if you can find a doctor who is used to working with athletes, that's where I'd go next.

-S-

 

[AJ_]

I am not a doctor, but I am near-sighted, and I am not aware of any connection between nearsightedness and retinal detachment, nor am I aware of any dangers associated with weight lifting for those who share our poor vision, @AJ_.

You really ..

-S-

I actually consulted several doctors. The logic behind should be something like this. High myopia causes the eye to be larger than the non-myopic eye. This stretches the retina and it gets thinner. Because of this it's not so firm, thus more likely to detach. Retina detachment may occur to the healthy eyes too but the chance is way lower. This information can be found on internet easily and I believe every eye doctor will confirm this. I mention again, my source is not the Internet by several eye doctors.

In terms of sports and weightlifting, they claim the problem might be caused by the tension which creates pressure in the whole body (incl. eyes) and this pressure may cause retina to detach because it's thinner than the normal one. I am not a professional but my understanding is that retina gets thinner only with high myopia. So it's possible that if somebody has minus 5, the retina is normal (or close to normal).

That's why I am thinking of how to decide when the pressure is too much and possibly threatening for me. Sor far I've just decided on avoiding holding my breath (they call it Valsalva maneuver) and lifting my max where it's certain I'd have to generate maximal tension possible.

 

[Steve Freides]

High myopia causes the eye to be larger than the non-myopic eye.

Forgive me, and I'm not a medical doctor of any kind, but my Dad was an optometrist and I know a little more about this than perhaps the average person.

Your sentence could be an example of post hoc ergo propter hoc, by which I mean that high myopia is not necessarily a cause of a larger eye. My own understanding is that it often works the other way around - people whose eyes are a little too long, front to back, sometimes have the focal point of their lens too far to the front and this is what make them nearsighted. But once can be nearsighted without a larger eye, and one can have a larger eye without being nearsighted.

So my next question is have you determined - you or your doctors - an actual cause and effect here?

This stretches the retina and it gets thinner.

Again, I would like to know if this is confirmed, and I think you should know, too. I would think, in 2017, that medicine could tell us if you are actually at risk for what you think you're at risk of - that's the basis for your approach to exercise, and I think it's worth exploring if you haven't already.

This is absolutely not medical advice, just the son of an eye doctor talking and sharing what I remember of many conversations with my father on these subjects.

-S-

 

[AJ_]

Forgive me, and I'm not a medical doctor of any kind, but my Dad was an optometrist and I ..

-S-

Steve, thank you for your response. I wasn't aware of your background and that's why I tried to explain it like this. "Too long eyes from front to back" are actually my case from what the doctors told me. They make also regular pictures of my retina so I guess they know what's applicable for me.

I haven't been able to find any scientific study on this so far and this is the reason why I am asking here. Hoping there's somebody else who was dealing with this.

At the moment, I'll respect what I were told about my condition. Although, it's limiting, I really don't feel like "giving it a try". When I find some relevant information on this in the future, I'll share it with you here on the forum.

 

[Brett Jones]

Try to find a Retinal Specialist that works with Athletes - likely a baseball team, or boxers etc...

But until then follow your Dr.'s recommendation - period.

 

[Bartosa]

Forgive me, and I'm not a medical doctor of any kind, but my Dad was an optometrist and I know a little more about this than perhaps the average person.

Your sentence could be an example of post hoc ergo propter hoc, by which I mean that high myopia is not necessarily a cause of a larger eye. My own understanding is that it often works the other way around - people whose eyes are a little too long, front to back, sometimes have the focal point of their lens too far to the front and this is what make them nearsighted. But once can be nearsighted without a larger eye, and one can have a larger eye without being nearsighted.

So my next question is have you determined - you or your doctors - an actual cause and effect here?


Again, I would like to know if this is confirmed, and I think you should know, too. I would think, in 2017, that medicine could tell us if you are actually at risk for what you think you're at risk of - that's the basis for your approach to exercise, and I think it's worth exploring if you haven't already.

This is absolutely not medical advice, just the son of an eye doctor talking and sharing what I remember of many conversations with my father on these subjects.

-S-

Hi

First of all sorry for bumping this post but TS has a problem that a lot of lifters have and there’s Very little info about. I have the same problem as TS as in very nearsighted. -11 also. I had 2 retinal detachment already and i know for a fact he’s right if he says the retina of A high myopic person is thinner. I had multiple doctors mentioned it to their co assistants and to myself while looking in my eyes with a slit lamp or under surgery.

I asked 2 opinion of doctors already on the matter and one said its not a good idea to lift heavy and the other one said to not use to valsalva Tech Nique as mentioned holding your breath to increase tension and strenght wich in turn will raise ocular pressure = bad.


Either way i know i can never go fully a 100% all out because i cannot use the technique so 1rm are out of the question for me and i (altho no medical expert) would strongly advice the same for anyone with high myopia(-7 and up). Personally I inhale and exhale with hardly any pause inbetween while i do my reps to avoid as much pressure build up as possible. Its not a fun way to train but it beats having to deal with retinal detachment surgeries and its aftermath,laser in your eyes to burn down possible places where retinal detachment can occur, massive floater explosions, and complete blindness.

Their are other ways to get strong and still be relative save like volume training. But whatever you do breathing is paramount imo.

 

[Debster]

Hello. I am a 53 yr. old female who works out. I am pretty near sighted. I just got a vitreous detachment 4 days ago while doing "girlie pushups"...did 100 of them, 25 per rep, like I always do. I admit I probably was not breathing correctly, I was behind in my workout and trying to catch up that evening...That said, I suddenly began having lots of light flashes in my left eye and then a large cobweb-type thing...eye dr. says I was at risk because of my high myopia-supposedly makes a retina thinner... and strenuous exercise. I was in the Army years ago and worked out harder, however, I was younger then and I probably was breathing correctly consciously....This forced vitreous detachment is being monitored for a retinal tear/detachment as I type this. The next 6 weeks will probably tell the story. I say forced because: usually between the 60-80's our vitreous gradually detaches and changes from gel to watery-like in most people with no problems, except maybe a few floaters. My eye dr. says I forced mine, so here I am hoping it doesn't effect the retina....so, it can happen. I've researched it alot and occasionally I find the rare article that mentions myopia and the lack of breathing correctly/holding your breath. So, yep, it happens. Be careful people! I am restricted to "normal walking" until we see what this thing does. Not only does that suck as I love to workout, this cobwebby-haze in my eye is about to drive me nuts, and I'm praying my retina holds strong.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Debster, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

-S-