Return Of The Kettlebell cleaning the bells instead of snatching them, are we missing out?

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Mark Limbaga, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    Just a thought. Assuming the primary focus is strength
     
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  2. J Petersen

    J Petersen SFG1/SFB Certified Instructor

    Assuming that we're doing the program to the letter, the Chief prefers the double snatch not only because it is an excellent display of power and acts as a safety measure (if we can't manage the snatch beforehand, we're done with pressing for the day), but we'll also be having more than our fill of cleans from a fortnight of long cycle C&J, so we might as well use a different stimulus.

    Shorter answer: No, probably not.
     
  3. Sauli

    Sauli Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    Double c&p ladders and front squats after top rung sounds good to me for overall development. I think double snatch would be limiting lift for me atleast.
    Just do it and build huge amount of strength and muscle. :)
     
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  4. BrianCF

    BrianCF Triple-Digit Post Count

    I don't believe it has any limits. I can press 70's. I can double snatch 55's, but not 70's. Not even close. Does that mean I limit my press workouts to 55's. Absolutely not.

    The double snatch is an awesome exercise, however, it is one of the most dangerous ones in the kettlebell bag. The beauty of doing it before presses is you have to bring the bells back down to the rack before your first press, then reapply tension. While a clean can give you some momentum on the way up. So I completely get the use of it.

    And passing the ROP standards, doesn't automatically translate into the double snatch lift.

    You can always just do 5 x 5 double snatches as a finisher...assuming your shoulders can take it.
     
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  5. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    Interesting insights...

    It may be a worthy experiment to just clean the bells instead of snatching them and then following everything else as written in ROTK and see what the outcome would be
     
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  6. J Petersen

    J Petersen SFG1/SFB Certified Instructor

    Something I had neglected to mention the other day (finding I do some of my best proofreading after hitting "post")--keep in mind that were we to swap out double cleans in lieu of double snatches, the actual volume of reps would be relatively low for the session. After all, since pure strength is the stated pursuit and since we've already paid our dues with RoP, the days of re-cleaning before each press are over. This makes the pressing even tougher, since we don't get that "reset" before each rep.

    If strength is the primary focus, re-cleaning between each rep would, in essence, be making things easier. And if we were merely going to clean once before each rung on the press ladder, I'd think such a paltry number of cleans would be negligible to what we'd be after (particularly since we'd already be "cleaned-out" from the ballistic training blocks).

    A big power movement like a double snatch, though--that's the ticket.
     
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  7. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    although the limiting factor would be not everyone has the skill to double snatch a pair of heavy bells..

    for further discussion, programs such as the total tension complex and moving target complex both don't require you to reclean before each press
     
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  8. Sauli

    Sauli Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    For me being time-efficient is important. That's why I prefer always clean and press.
    I did also those complexes with clean and press. Well, someone could say that I did'nt do those programs as written, but they were okay anyway. I vote for c&p instead of dbl snatch, but this is not demogracy. You do what you want to do. :)
     
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  9. J Petersen

    J Petersen SFG1/SFB Certified Instructor

    Since we're ruling out any pre-existing medical condition preventing a trainee from performing the drill and it is solely a lack of skill, then respectfully, this trainee probably has no business following RotKB. The prerequisites are there for a reason.
     
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  10. damogari

    damogari Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    The reqiuirement of double snatch is the only thing that was blocking me from doing this program. I have RoP goal requirements covered and I can press 40s for reps but doing double snatch with 32s would be a hard time for me. Doing uneven snatches makes thing only worse. I think that doing clean instead of snatch is the only option for me to do this program in the future.
     
  11. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    full disclosure, I have done ROTK but only achieved one of the two pre-requisites which is the SFGII press, I have nailed simple though...

    what I did was go conservative and used a 10-12 rm for grinds and ballistics when I began.

    Now, to add further context, what I am asking is this in essence:

    can we follow the block periodization of ROTK alternating grinds and ballistics every two weeks while focusing on strength primarily but without having to let the rule of double snatching be a hindrance??
     
  12. Shahaf Levin

    Shahaf Levin Strong Member of the Forum

    I can not comment on ROTK sepicificaly, but when I follow a program I do not disregard minimum requierment and safety valves. I think we all can agree that Pavel don't put stuff in programs just because...

    If double snatches hindres ones ability in following a program maybe double snatch ptactice should be his program. I think it is analouges to a person doing hang power cleans instead of full cleans off the floor cause he can't pull from the floor or drop into the squat
     
  13. Robban

    Robban Second Post

    I bought the book when it was first published and I still like the program! But I wonder if Pavel would change/tweak anything now that the book is almost 10 years old...?
     
  14. Shawn90

    Shawn90 Strong Member of the Forum

    I recall reading you had to "front snatch" the bells to the rack, but I'm probably mistaken.

    Which one of you has done the program and can now walk through walls ? (results?;) )
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  15. Robban

    Robban Second Post

    Didn't try to walk through walls - but you get a sense of being able of ripping someone a new one! ;)
     
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