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Other/Mixed Review on LISS. Slow, sustained fat loss among other health benefits.

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
1. Your body preferentially uses the most energy efficient source. So if you eat more carbs later when you feed yourself, you'll burn more carbs after that feeding and burn less fat. So it equalizes.
There was an older classic N=1 experiment based on consuming almost nothing but carbs and protein and a serving of sour cream while doing an ungodly amount of volume. Alex Hormozi took an out there theory from his friend Greg Nuckols and put it to the test (based on the idea that carbs don't really get turned into fat). Yes, he was gear free, and yes he was regaining muscle that he recently lost, and I'm sure a lot of this is water weight due to the ungodly amount of carbs consumed, but 35lbs in 6 weeks is still impressive.

I hung out with him a few times later when he actually was on gear and he turned sideways to go through doors.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
There was an older classic N=1 experiment based on consuming almost nothing but carbs and protein and a serving of sour cream while doing an ungodly amount of volume. Alex Hormozi took an out there theory from his friend Greg Nuckols and put it to the test (based on the idea that carbs don't really get turned into fat). Yes, he was gear free, and yes he was regaining muscle that he recently lost, and I'm sure a lot of this is water weight due to the ungodly amount of carbs consumed, but 35lbs in 6 weeks is still impressive.

I hung out with him a few times later when he actually was on gear and he turned sideways to go through doors.

Actually, his training schedule doesn't seem that crazy to me. I probably do about 80% of that volume in a hypertrophy phase.

This cracked me up:


Serving Size
PastaEntire Box

Maybe I just need to eat more. ;)
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
I generally agree w. the list, however I'd nitpick a couple like the training fasted thing that watchnerd mentioned and:
5. Intense workouts may have an “afterburn” effect. Ie do some swings or complexes to get the heart rate up!
My understanding is that the EPOC thing is grossly overstated by most fitness people and that, in the big picture, it is negligible. I mean, I get that people want to believe it, and after a hard workout when you're all flushed and sweating like a hog it 'makes sense', but yeah...
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
Train fasted (intermittent fasting), seriously don’t eat before you train if fat loss is your goal.
Fasted Prior To Training

Yes, Fasting prior to training will incease fat being used for energy to a degree.

As per...

The conclusions really seem to support the narrative that the positive effects of IF are caused by CR.

Calories In, Calories Out

If an individual consume more calories during the day, after a Fasted Workout, it negates fat loss.

Consider green tea as your beverage of choice.
Mild Assistance

Green Tea, Caffeine, Yohimbe, etc may slightly assist.

However, it isn't going to help that much.

Protein is important (aim for 1g/kg or so)

Protein Intake

Protein intake of around 1.4 gram per kilo or more of body weight is optimal.

1 gram per kilo of bodyweight is usually too low for most active individuals.

Do your workout (A&A snatches or LCCJ or the Giant) before your cardio.

Combining Cardio and Strength Training

Research shows that performing Cardio before Strength Training is elicits a better effect.

With that said, it come down to what type of cardio is performed.

AMP-K and Cardio

Cardio activates AMP-K (Activated Protein Kinase)

AMP-K is catabolic. It breaks down fat for energy.

AMP-K also blocks mTOR (Mammalian Target of Rapamycin).

mTOR triggers the anabolic, muscle building effect elicited with Resistance Training.

Thus, performing Cardio after Strength Training dampens or negates the Anabolic Resistance Training Session.

Solution

1) Perform Cardio first, rest about 30 minutes or more and then perform Resistance.

2) Perform Cardio and Resistance Training on Separate Days.

Cardio should be relatively easy (i.e. a pace you can maintain for 45 minutes).

Relatively Easy Cardio

While it burn some calories, it isn't that much.

Secondly, Easy Cardio does not increase Metabolic Rate afterward; as does High Intensity Interval Training.

Fat Burning Effect of HIIT and LISS

...The total energy cost of the ET (Endurance Training) program was substantially greater than the HIIT program. The researchers calculated that the ET group burned more than twice as many calories while exercising than the HIIT program. But (surprise, surprise) skinfold measurements showed that the HIIT group lost more subcutaneous fat. "Moreover," reported the researchers, "when the difference in the total energy cost of the program was taken into account..., the subcutaneous fat loss was ninefold greater in the HIIT program than in the ET program." In short, the HIIT group got 9 times more fat-loss benefit for every calorie burned exercising. Source: Forget the Fat-Burn Zone
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I generally agree w. the list, however I'd nitpick a couple like the training fasted thing that watchnerd mentioned and:

My understanding is that the EPOC thing is grossly overstated by most fitness people and that, in the big picture, it is negligible. I mean, I get that people want to believe it, and after a hard workout when you're all flushed and sweating like a hog it 'makes sense', but yeah...

The extra energy burned during EPOC is only about 6-15% as much as is used during the exercise itself.


So if you burned 500 calories on exercise, you're maybe going to burn another 75 calories over the next 8-12 hours.

That's less calories than are in 1 glass of milk.
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
The extra energy burned during EPOC is only about 6-15% as much as is used during the exercise itself.


So if you burned 500 calories on HIIT exercise, you're maybe going to burn another 75 calories over the next 8-12 hours.

That's less calories than are in 1 glass of milk.
I remember a friend being glad to have saved 30-40 lbs on his rice rocket by ripping out the carpets and most of the interior panels. it was all painted metal inside. but - he weighed closer to 300 lbs. I was like... dude. now it hurts to ride in your car and it's super loud, and there's no radio.
 

Boris Bachmann

Level 7 Valued Member
So if you burned 500 calories on exercise, you're maybe going to burn another 75 calories over the next 8-12 hours.

That's less calories than are in 1 glass of milk.
BUT IF YOU DID THAT EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR.... it'd be less than a pound.

Edit - actually it'd be more like 9 pounds.

Edit 2 - But a few drinks at Starbucks and a Snickers bar here and there over the course of that year, and you can pretty much kiss any caloric advantage goodbye.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
BUT IF YOU DID THAT EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR.... it'd be less than a pound.

Edit - actually it'd be more like 9 pounds.

Or maybe not if doing HIIT every day is jacking up your cortisol and/or messing with your sleep. ;)

And that's assuming you're actually burning 500 calories in HIIT, which also probably isn't the case.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Elite Certified Instructor
Different strokes for different goals. Mine has always been to weigh within a few pounds of what I weighed at my high school graduation but be stronger, better conditioned, and healthier. I don't always do fasted cardio but I feel like it helps me achieve my goals when I do. This is the Science of Steve. :)

-S-
 

puddleduck

Level 6 Valued Member
I think this stuff might really matter if you’re an endurance athlete or if your performance needs absolutely optimising (eg maximising strength gains for professional competition or maximising fat loss with muscle retention). I would suggest that if you are one of those people, you are probably not posting on this forum (no disrespect to the impressive feats some of us achieve btw).

So it boils down to doing the form of cardio you enjoy most, is sustainable and is complementary to your other physical pursuits. This may take some trial and error so I would suggest:

1. Pick an approach for 6-12 weeks - either one method or a blended approach
2. Measure your performance in your primary activities
3. Measure some health variables: blood pressure, Bodyweight, hrv, rhr etc
4. Assess compliance
5. Monitor injuries

By the end of that you’ll know stuff that no study or opinion will make you un-know
 

Halfakneecap

Level 6 Valued Member
I think a big problem is measuring. If you don’t measure it you can’t improve it. The chance of me logging calories and weight 5 days a week for a week is high, but to log calories and weight and exercise every single day for a month to isolate what is actually working/not working is low. Same with eating the same foods every day. A week? Yep, a full month? Much harder.
 

Halfakneecap

Level 6 Valued Member
Get on the scale every morning, have an annual physical exam, and compete twice a year at something. Do we need to measure more than that?

-S-
From the point of view that lots of article authors like to hint that their “method” is the one and only method for everybody to lose fat, then, yes. How many fat loss articles or diet themed articles spend lots of time trying to imply X method is better than Y method?

But for most people, me most definitely included, you are right. I can tell when I need to eat better, and when I’ve been eating better.

Anyway, I’m off to eat raw liver while facing Uranus while it’s in its full moon phase haha
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Get on the scale every morning, have an annual physical exam, and compete twice a year at something. Do we need to measure more than that?

-S-

I don't *need* to do it, but I actually track 19 different blood markers with my sports medicine doc.

Plus bi-annual Dexa scans and BMR measurements.

But that's just me turning my physical hobby into a giant data analysis geek out.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Elite Certified Instructor
How many fat loss articles or diet themed articles spend lots of time trying to imply X method is better than Y method?
I agree. We live in an age of too much information. While I appreciate the diligence of many on the forum in posting articles on strength and conditioning related subjects, I confess I don't pay much attention to most of them. I have trusted sources here at StrongFirst: the books and articles and seminars. My life is busy - doing things other than researching S&C - so I am very happy to take the word of people I trust.

-S-
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I think this stuff might really matter if you’re an endurance athlete or if your performance needs absolutely optimising (eg maximising strength gains for professional competition or maximising fat loss with muscle retention). I would suggest that if you are one of those people, you are probably not posting on this forum (no disrespect to the impressive feats some of us achieve btw).

Hey now....

Some of us like posting here!
 

North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
I think this stuff might really matter if you’re an endurance athlete or if your performance needs absolutely optimising (eg maximising strength gains for professional competition or maximising fat loss with muscle retention). I would suggest that if you are one of those people, you are probably not posting on this forum (no disrespect to the impressive feats some of us achieve btw).

So it boils down to doing the form of cardio you enjoy most, is sustainable and is complementary to your other physical pursuits. This may take some trial and error so I would suggest:

1. Pick an approach for 6-12 weeks - either one method or a blended approach
2. Measure your performance in your primary activities
3. Measure some health variables: blood pressure, Bodyweight, hrv, rhr etc
4. Assess compliance
5. Monitor injuries

By the end of that you’ll know stuff that no study or opinion will make you un-know
This right here. On a personal level am a year into using only HIIT 2-3 times per week (aside from 6 weeks of jogging) for my cardio/aerobic health.

My blood pressure is down, resting HR is down, bf% is down, recovery seems to be quite robust, cortisol levels don't seem to be an issue, I spend 16-24 minutes total per week on aerobic fitness. Long term studies show both approaches improve a bunch of health markers, capillary and mitochondrial health and density.

Do what you like, just do it consistently.
 
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