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Old Forum Right to Bare Feet

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Mattsirpeace

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Hi all,

I just thought someone should start up a thread about barefoot training -- lifting, running, fighting, whatever.  I don't really have a question and don't want to make this "my" thread.  But I'll start with my experience and comments.

Too often discussions about cardio get tangled up with orthopedic issues.

Pavel was way ahead by writing about barefoot training in Power to the People.  Martial artists know all about it, but it was new to me for lifting.  I do have a copy of the Jim Fixx running book from 1977.  On the cover is a pair of trim but strong legs wearing zero-drop running shoes.

Going barefoot is just one more good reason to train at home.  I've pulled over 400 lbs, no problem.  Kettlebells are super-helpful for me because the barbell lifts and back squats are awkward.

I do some casual mountaineering.  I find that the more material you have under your feet the more likely you are to twist an ankle.

I wear 4E shoes.  I don't think my feet are wide.  I think they are developed.

Last year I was inspired by Easy Strength and Born to Run to try true barefoot running, no shoes.  I tried incline treadmill running.  I find it to actually be very gentle on the body, although it wears the skin out fast.  I also did regular runs, barefoot, at the local park.  It came naturally, no instruction needed.  I really loved these sessions and will do them again as soon as the snow melts.  I mixed in bodyweight squats and jumps, and also started mixing in light swings and zigzagging around obstacles.  Lots of possibilities.  Naturally this helped directly with hike/jogs in the mountains.

One nifty self-limiting option is to jog in Crocs.  They fly off if you try to run.  I know they're squishy.  Works for me.  On the downside, girls hate Crocs, just like they hate it if your wallet makes a velcro noise when you open it.

Feet are actually tripods, with a three-arch design.  It just adds to my respect for the human body.  The starting point should be the assumption that the body is built the way it is for a reason and not inherently flawed.
 
From "The Complete Book of Running" by Jim Fixx, 1977:

Also, most runners feel that the heel should be built up somewhat higher than the ball of the foot since that's the way street shoes are made; their theory being that they don't want to strain their feet--in particular, their Achilles tendons--by putting them into something radically different.  I'm not so sure; I wear running shoes that have practically no heels.  But I usually wear fairly flat street shoes, so maybe my feet are used to them.
 
There is that risk of damage IF you put your feet into something radically different from what they are used to, esp if you then use them hard.  I once knew a woman who could NOT go barefoot at all, even had 3 inch heeled bedroom slipper because she wore high high heels 100% of the time.  Her gastroc and tendons were so shortened and tight it was horrifying.  And she wondered why her feet hurt so much so often. Duh!  But once the transition is made in an orderly and careful way, then any heel at all starts to feel a bit "off", at least to me it does now.
 
I started rocking the Vibrams a few years ago.  I was having real bad lower back pain from a car wreck and read something about how the zero drop helped your hips get in the correct position and that it might help out some instances of lower back pain.  Being desperate I figured what the the heck, I'll wear some toe shoes, so I started wearing them all the time.  I had about three weeks of wearing them when I thought I'd wear them to Lollapalooza…that was a mistake because I was not prepared for that amount of walking and I ended up with some horrible calf pain.  3 years later, still wearing them as much as I can, although sometimes I'm forced into wearing workbooks or snow boots, even occasionally dress shoes (my wife thinks the toe shoes just don't look right with formal wear).  I just started running in them, because I signed up for the Chicago Tough Mudder, and I haven't ran in a while.  Being a big guy, on a journey to lose weight and get fit for once and for all, running in the vibrams is the best thing ever.   I had a failed attempt at training for a marathon years a ago which was the last time I seriously ran, and when I did I had some serious cushioned motion control big boy shoes and my knees and ankles never felt very good, just pounding my feet in the ground.  Now I'm running in the Vibrams and it feels great, like I'm just kind of floating along, I like to end my trots with a nice sprint to the finish, it's great, floating along on the balls of my feet.  I have never enjoyed running before until now, even on snow and ice the vibrams still perform excellently.  I understand it's just a change in technique that's mostly responsible, but whatever it was it was a game changer for me to get out of big cushy motion control shoes and just run the way we are meant to run.  I love it.

 
 
I love my Vibram Five Fingers they are so comfortable and I'm kind of upset that I can wear them right now due to needing ankle support/stabilization but I'm still barefoot as much as possible while I'm at home.
 
Hi all,

Go ahead and reply.  Not my thread.  So far we know that toe shoes are less ugly than Crocs, since Joe has a wife and I'm a lonely guy.  And Strong Ladies don't wear heels.
 
Haha, it certainly wasn't the toe shoes that won her over, that's for sure.  However, in my opinion for bigger runners, the change in technique they cause can do wonders, provided, of course, one does the due diligence of acclimating themselves to the toe shoes/barefoot thing properly.  My Better Half is too stylish for the toe shoes, but she got a similar "barefoot" model Merrell that she really enjoys and works for her quite while so she can enjoy similar benefits.
 
Worth mentioning is "grounding."

The cosmic energetic harmony of the eternal mother earth goddess vibrations resonate with the chakras of your past-life spirit creature's... I dunno.  Ask Shirley Cline.

The theory is that if you have bare feet in direct contact with the ground your body absorbs free electrons, just like in the antioxidant theory of nutrition.  So the planet is one big vitamin pill.

I imagine martial artists and yoga practitioners have gone very, very deep with grounding.

Maybe Rif could comment on gymnastics and planetary awareness.

My experience is that when I lose the shoes and run around in the park like a little kid I feel invigorated and healthy.  Play and process instead of work and results.
 
I've always loved the idea of training barefoot. It's one of the things that "made sense" to me when I first started to learn about kettlebell training. Bare foot running is something I'm becoming interested in and I'm contemplating  buying myself a pair of vivobarefoot trainers. My wife has said she'd disown me if I started wearing Vibrams. Has anyone tried the vivobarefoots?

Also, a couple of months ago I was watching some rubbish medical programme on TV (I don't know why) and there was a woman complaining of pain in her calfs and was horrified when I saw some doctor or orthopaedic expert explain that we NEEDED heals on our shoes and this person should change from wearing flip flops so much to something "more substantial". I think my mouth actually fell open.
 
I have had the opportunity to read "born to run" and some other barefoot related material.   I have trained barefoot since my first kettlebell and got a pair of merrell embark trail gloves last summer and ran my first 5 k in them.

Ive never been into cushiony shoes in the first place, wearing mainly converse, onitsuka tigers and Adidas classics most of my life.   This winter in trying to keep with the minimalist approach, but not have soaked frozen feet,  I got a pair of Clark wallabees.  They have a soft crepe sole with a slight heel, but the best part is the upper really allows your toes to splay and there is no support.   I wear these as my everyday shoes and still train in bare feet or zero drop shoes.  When I first got the wallabees I was worried about the thickness of the sole and the heel, I considered having them shaved down or attempting it myself, but I haven't found them to be problematic and they are some  of the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned.   Once i wear out the soles on my red wings I'm gonna have them resoled with a low profile vibram or maybe they'll be mass producing minimalist work boots by then.  I guess we'll see.
 
The barefoot running movement made instant sense to me. My personal folk belief is that everyone should run barefoot or with minimal shoes unless there is some true orthopedic obstacle. Run barefoot on a beach and what will happen? Correct running. Remember that just because something is trendy doesn't mean it's wrong.

If you've been slamming your heels for years and wearing orthopedics, it will take time to correct things, and you will have a period of calf pain at a minimum. In my case it took three weeks. I took up running on the forefoot in Adidas Sambas, and have now switched to the New Balance Minimus. No pounding, no pain, no issues. Note that some Russian coaches recommend going right to barefoot on concrete, since this way will teach you without fail. Ah, those Russians.
 
I read "Chi Running"  from 2004 by Danny Dreyer.  The short version is to lean forward to run and don't overstride.  There's an interesting passage on page 187:

 

...the less shoe you have on your foot, the more your foot will educate your body to move correctly.

For example, people who run barefoot as a rule have much better running form than people who wear shoes.  Go to your local track sometime and run a lap without your shoes on, and see what happens to your running form.  You'll come back a nonheel striker.  Running barefoot forces you to land on that nice, soft midsection of your foot instead of your heel.  It also forces you to lean forward, keeping your weight in front of where your feet strike the ground.  This is an example of your feet teaching your body how to run correctly.  Less is better.

 

In other words, you can practically skip reading the book if you just take your shoes off!

Barefoot running worked for me again this summer.  I would dribble an under-inflated volleyball to distract me from the fact that I was just going around in circles, and mix in some light swings and goblet squats to limber up.  On a related note, the nosebreathing guideline from Easy Strength was helpful.  I was able to repeat an old PR with the training being downright pleasant.  Easy Endurance.
 
I wear Vivo Barefoot pretty much all the time. They are constantly improving and are coming out with some quality boots & shoes now too. The new 'One' has become my go-to all-purpose footwear.

The one issue I find with wearing minimal footwear is cracking, calloused heels. Going actually barefoot more helps this. Also, when it's very cold, a thicker layer is more appealing.
 
The whole "minimalist" shoe thing made instant folk sense to me too.  Once I started KB training barefoot, I had very little interest in isolating myself from the firmament any more.  So I bought a pair of "Stem" brand minimalist shoes.  They've since changed their name to something else.  They feel like house slippers and are soft and quiet making it easier to sneak up on cats.  An instant and lifelong fan now of flat, thin, high-feel shoes, I went looking for something I could wear in my Real Airline Pilot job.  Turns out demand for something that'll pass for business wear, or at least "business casual" is growing rapidly.  I bought a pair of VivoBarefoot Ra shoes.  I think they're quite ugly, but as Red noted in "Shawshank Redemption":  how often do you really look at a man's shoes?  So now I can walk much more naturally as long as you pay no attention to the fact that one arm is locked behind me dragging a wheeled bag with two 32 kilo kettlebells strapped to it.  That was a complete lie.  What's not a lie is that when I moved into my current home 10 years ago, I couldn't walk barefoot across my composite driveway.  It may as well have been shards of broken glass ala "Die Hard".  A few weeks ago, I finished off a "More Kettlebell Muscle" session and just started walking barefoot and ended up going a mile on the street in total comfort.
 
As a teen, I had cronic ankle pain when I would run.  It is no wonder since in played ice hockey and skied all winter and then straight into running endless laps once lacrosse season started.  My doc said I had fallen arches and put me in rock hard orthotics.  This lead to knee surgery.  I started Taekwondo when I hit college and within 3 months of training barefoot I was pain free.  20+ years later and my ankles are probably the most trouble-free part of my body.  It is shocking to seek the typical ankle/calf dysfunction of the average person, even young kids, when they start their martial arts training.

 
 
I'm a bit of a contrarian when it comes to minimalist/barefoot shoes.  Shoes (or some equivalent) were universally invented or adopted by every civilization with few exceptions for a reason.

 

Most problems with bad knees and foot pain can be attributed to one primary factor: concrete sucks.  It's bad for walking on, it's bad for running on, it's bad for doing just about anything with your feet on regardless of your shoes.   If you run on your neighborhood sidewalks and it's causing you foot pain, switching to minimalist running shoes might help.  For a little while.  Then the pain will likely show up again.  You'd be better off just moving your running over into the grass or finding a quality track with a surface made from little bits of used tires.

 

If you are like me and have a heavy overpronation (where the length of your foot "rolls" inward and any arch you may have is pressed to the ground) your best bet is switching the surface you're running on and you'll probably find you do a better job of correcting automatically regardless of your shoes.  In fact I'd say for everyone, whether you prefer more stabilization and cushion or a minimalist shoe, the biggest bang for your buck in fixing your running and foot strike will come from changing the surface you run on.  Tons of padding or no padding in your shoe, it's still gonna jack you up if you're putting your feet onto concrete instead of dirt or grass, and you're gonna improperly compensate for it in ways that will destroy your feet whether you realize you're doing it or not.

 

In the weight room?  Man, I have no clue.  I've asked before about recommendations beyond Chucks since I hate them and they offer zero stabilization, but I haven't found anything I prefer yet.  Being barefoot or wearing any shoe with Superfeet inserts works the best so far, but I still make sure I am on some form of light padding.  The $30 floor mat I bought at the sporting goods store was some of the best money I ever spent.  Seriously, staying off of concrete when you don't need to be on it does wonders.
 
Good comments all around, glad this thread was worthwhile.  I see the barefoot movement as being a cousin of the paleo diet; they are both "back to nature" and have a lot of scientific and anecdotal support.  I would add that both ideas simply must be essentially right, but with a thousand caveats, qualifications, modifications, customizations.

A winning trail runner I know told me an elevated heel will always provide a performance advantage.  I see it as being akin to wearing a weightlifting belt or powerlifting gear.  Personally I need protection on pavement or trails but prefer little or no heel elevation.

Thanks all for a good thread.
 
Actually it is quite gratifying to the hippies!

I had pretty extreme pronation as a kid, "duck feet" and totally "flat", and I too got orthotics. Mine were 1950's style so made of stainless steel!  Un-uh, w/ a big spike under the heel to hold them in place.  Have to say they did end my chronic, screaming leg pain but I was totally dependent on them and later, on the plastic replacements.

I won't bore w/ the details but many years later, in my late 20's I decided to "retrain my ankles, damnit!"  Talk about hippies! I actually wore those dorky Dr Scholl's wooden sandels for years

http://www.drschollsshoes.com/en-US/Content/history.aspx

Yeah, those. Slightest misstep and you could be severely injured or at least in quite a bit of pain. Crossing busy streets was "interesting".  But with all that instant feedback I did retrain my foot/ankle posture to the point that I do not pronate at all, my feet and ankles are spontaneously at total neutral as the neurological fall-back position.

I think there are deep roots to posture. In large part we actually learn it from our parents, monkey see-monkey do. There can be deep emotional roots as well, chronic, unrecognized depression, buried rage, grief, joy, spontaneity, all have postural correlates and can be tied in, in either direction, to chronic postural issues.

Just $0.02 from an old hippy ;)
 
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