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Old Forum "Rippetoe Throws Down"

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magus71

Level 1 Valued Member
Herr, the kettlebell is much more portable than a power rack and 425 lbs of bar and plates it takes to replicate the same pulling strength as a 53 lb KB. As far as practicality, one KB will last the rest of my life, if cared for, and save me thousands of dollars on gym fees. Now, if I could choose only one modality, KB or barbell with power rack, I would choose barbell with power rack, with the caveat being that the barbell is easily available.  But life being as it is, I still think the KB packs more punch per pound and dollar cost than any other exercise tool in existance.
 

jgruginski

Level 3 Valued Member
I'm currently trying to figure out the balance between barbell and kettlebell training (and mobility, so I don't become a stiff old man). Mike Mahler has an interesting article on the subject, where he combines both tools into a weekly program, but I'm wondering if an alternating approach might not work better.

Either way, Rippetoe is a smart guy and his focus on strength first is obviously a good one.
 

magus71

Level 1 Valued Member
Joe,

I like to replace deadlifts in a normal 5x5 routine with heavy kettlebell swings and snatches. Keep the bench and squat. I get the deadlift power from the KBs, plus the conditioning and get to keep the power of squats and bench.
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
I don't know about the portability of kettlebells, but you can at least put a few of them in an apartment.  Can't do that with a barbell and power rack.

regarding pure strength, hard to argue that barbells are superior.  But you won't get the combination of strength plus conditioning of swings.
 

HerrMannelig

Level 3 Valued Member
Herr, the kettlebell is much more portable than a power rack and 425 lbs of bar and plates it takes to replicate the same pulling strength as a 53 lb KB.
I am not sure exactly what you are comparing here...I had several 53 lb kettlebells and they were nothing more than 53 lbs each.
As far as practicality, one KB will last the rest of my life, if cared for, and save me thousands of dollars on gym fees. Now, if I could choose only one modality, KB or barbell with power rack, I would choose barbell with power rack, with the caveat being that the barbell is easily available.  But life being as it is, I still think the KB packs more punch per pound and dollar cost than any other exercise tool in existance.
Well, the issue is not anyone's chosen strength tool or goals. The actual needs of us, even those in particular situations, is actually minimal. "Extra" strength is for the most part something one obtains because one enjoys or desires it personally.

Any particular aspect of strength can be lauded over the others if one chooses to value its particular unique features over the rest. A powerlifter might say that obviously lifting the heaviest possible weight is the best measure of strength. A kettlebell lifter or Steve Justa may point out that lifting a heavy weight many times is a lot more work than lifting a heavier weight once. A sculler may say that lifting stuff doesn't get you anywhere, and that rowers have strong bodies and the best VO2 Max numbers in the population. Sprinters may say that running fast over short distances is the true human measure of strength and speed and a skill first useful for hunters and warriors.

The Rippetoe articles are very good in some ways, but they do reveal a slightly misguided idea that there is one way to test strength and one way to obtain strength. Obviously, we know that is false. Strength is movement, and there are many ways to move, and pursuing excellence in one way means one sacrifices potential in another way. The best powerlifters may be good in some other areas, but they are never as good as they are at powerlifting and may significantly reduce their ability in other things by powerlifting.

Maybe that is why the military does not use such training, because continued focus on it beyond the point where it gives benefits would actually be detrimental and costly. With pushups, pullups, and running, even if people become competitive and push beyond the requirements, it does not have an adverse affect.

 
 

Samuel

Level 2 Valued Member
The latest Rippetoe rant is discussed in depth (over nearly 2 and a half hours) by Bret Contreras and Jonathan Fass on the Strength of Evidence Podcast here:

http://strengthofevidence.com/special-topics-episode-7-5-response-to-rippetoe-goes-off/
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
I would be willing that the reason the military doesn't implement such training is two fold.  The first is that it would be very costly and difficult to implement.  But, if they did implement this type of training, while continuing to do the same field exercises, the results would be good.

the other reason is the fact that most people still equate strength training with weights to bodybuilding.  It is tough to break that mindset.
 

magus71

Level 1 Valued Member
I'd say the biggest reason for not using other measurements and methods is equating cardio work with fitness. No other thing improved my athletic capability more than lifting weights. Nothing.
 

AndyMcL

Level 6 Valued Member
Real good podcast. Thank you for the link, Samuel.

At the end of the day I don't see why everything has to be so black and white. Yes, large compound barbell lifts are great for most people. Not everyone, and most people could benefit from other bodyweight or kettlebell movements and activation exercises.
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
I realize that this is an old thread, but I was still thinking about it.  I wonder if Rippeto has ever trained someone who has developed shoulder problems, and if so, how would he go about addressing it.  Has anyone ever heard Rippetoe specifically address this?
 

BCman

Level 6 Valued Member
Wow that podcast was deep and a little boring.

I originally started lifting to get stronger to improve my power in karate.  I used all sorts of equipment and machines at the gyms over two decades.  I agree that barbells probably produce the most size/strength gains over other equipment.  But I was lifting for power to improve my karate.  At my peak in 98-99, I was 220 and the most strong in my life.  I also had the most injuries, and aches and pains.  Not to mention that I may have had alot more body armour, than when I started at 175,  but for all that strength, it never translated to the improved power  performance I was looking for in my karate.

Now I lift KBs, I may not be near as strong as I was 15 years ago, But I now have way more power in my karate.  My body doesn't ache, no injuries and very minor if they do happen. 

The biggest difference now is I train my body as a whole unit, not in parts!

Al
 
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