Kettlebell Rite of Passage version 2019

[Tjerr]

Hi Guys,

Comming saturday I´m planning to end the first cycle of my 28 Rite of Passage journey. I want to take a short break and then start another 13 week progression with the 32 bell.

The question is, everyone knows that ladders always deliver. But if Pavel had written ETK this year, do you think the Swings/Snatch part of the workout would be more like a StrongEndurance/A+A verion? If so, how?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Had a discussion with @JSStevens about this but with ROTK..

here are my insights..

Bridging bell sizes would be done with plan strong principles.

A+A would be great.. I'd guess a dice roll for swings and snatches like the program of @Arryn Grogan would be a smart choice as well

 

[Tjerr]

Simplify your Strength Programming Using Die-Rolled Variability | StrongFirst

This program?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Simplify your Strength Programming Using Die-Rolled Variability | StrongFirst

This program?

For the ballistics? Great idea IMHO

 

[Sean M]

I like the “Dice 2.0” idea. Could do the low volume swings on the heavy ladder day, and vice versa. Wave the total weekly volume, maybe an occasional 4th training day of just high volume swings or snatches.

 

[Oscar]

This is a very good question @Tjerr . I'll be doing ROP shortly and have the same doubt about the ballistics.

The way they are designed in the program, they seem to be more of a peaking phase than a base building, right? I'll need to peak in November so no point in peaking now. I would rather do more volume, shorter and heavier sets with less density.

Does that make sense?

 

[Bauer]

This might be of interest, too:

Want a simple, but effective workout? Do sets of 10 reps on the minute for as long as you can maintain maximum power. On the surface it seems like the rest is very generous, but remember that we are after power, not “burn.”

Do your swings three times a week, varying the volume. On Friday, do as many perfect sets as you can safely. On the following Monday, do 75 percent of Friday’s number and on Wednesday 50 percent. For example: If on Friday you managed 20 sets, do 15 sets on Monday and 10 on Wednesday.

Source: How to Do the Kettlebell Swing | Men's Health

Maybe this could be done with Sets of 5, too.However, I don't know, how you would relate those numbers to snatches.

 

[Tjerr]

This is a very good question @Tjerr

The way they are designed in the program, they seem to be more of a peaking phase than a base building, right? I'll need to peak in November so no point in peaking now. I would rather do more volume, shorter and heavier sets with less density. Does that make sense?

Exactly my point.

This might be of interest, too:
Source: How to Do the Kettlebell Swing | Men's Health

I was thinking about incorperating this particular format in my next cycle, but still not quite sure:

The Hybrid Power Conditioning Program

Then, do the smallest amount of that week with snatches instead of the swings

 

[Tom Flint]

Has anyone successfully paired A+A snatches and swings with ROP presses? And if so, how?

I’m currently at the end of my second week of ROP with 32kg by the book but I’m finding the intensity of the ballistic portion fairly costly alongside life stressors (two small children and two jobs topping that list). I’d like to maintain my TGUs and heavy loaded cleans/push presses for my variety days though. I’m aware that if I whack a decent number of snatch repeats onto anything other than Light Day then I’ll be out training for hours...

If anyone has struck a happy medium blending, sing out!

Thanks!

 

[Sauli]

Has anyone successfully paired A+A snatches and swings with ROP presses? And if so, how?

I’m currently at the end of my second week of ROP with 32kg by the book but I’m finding the intensity of the ballistic portion fairly costly alongside life stressors (two small children and two jobs topping that list). I’d like to maintain my TGUs and heavy loaded cleans/push presses for my variety days though. I’m aware that if I whack a decent number of snatch repeats onto anything other than Light Day then I’ll be out training for hours...

If anyone has struck a happy medium blending, sing out!

Thanks!

I did rop with a+a snatches. It worked well. I kept those sessions in 10-16min range.

 

[Molson]

@Sauli can you give us some more details? What sizes were you using? How many ladders? What did you reach with both press and ballistic? 10-16min seems short for classic ROP itself.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Has anyone successfully paired A+A snatches and swings with ROP presses? And if so, how?

I’m currently at the end of my second week of ROP with 32kg by the book but I’m finding the intensity of the ballistic portion fairly costly alongside life stressors (two small children and two jobs topping that list). I’d like to maintain my TGUs and heavy loaded cleans/push presses for my variety days though. I’m aware that if I whack a decent number of snatch repeats onto anything other than Light Day then I’ll be out training for hours...

If anyone has struck a happy medium blending, sing out!

Thanks!

wasn't exactly doing ROP but was running a double bell program focused on clean and press and also a clean and jerk program, both incorporated ladders..

on other days (twice a week) I was running A+A-esque snatches from strength plan 001 by Hector Gutierrez Jr

 

[J Cox]

This might be of interest, too:


Source: How to Do the Kettlebell Swing | Men's Health

Maybe this could be done with Sets of 5, too.However, I don't know, how you would relate those numbers to snatches.

I love this idea. Very cool way to wave.

 

[John Grahill]

Don't know if he'd change it but it rocks! Have run through the pressing portion several times which is a tremendous "program in a program" for a lack of a better term.

Each time I've gone through it I've come out significantly stronger and thickly muscled in the shoulder girdle. I know it's not as "results producing" as double bell work but in my case the strength carried over to double bell work!

Everyone chases the newest rage but frankly sometimes "old school is best"!

 

[guardian7]

Had a discussion with @JSStevens about this but with ROTK..

here are my insights..

Bridging bell sizes would be done with plan strong principles.

A+A would be great.. I'd guess a dice roll for swings and snatches like the program of @Arryn Grogan would be a smart choice as well

I find that the random element for me is simply life. If I have a tough workday, I use a lower amount, an easy day or feeling good, more, a normal day, medium. Sudden family responsibilities--day off! Dice not needed. This may be enough for those who are not competitive athletes and not in the fitness industry who just have GPP goals. Life is random enough. The principle of waving must still be adhered to of course on a weekly basis.

 

[Oscar]

I find that the random element for me is simply life. If I have a tough workday, I use a lower amount, an easy day or feeling good, more, a normal day, medium. Sudden family responsibilities--day off! Dice not needed. This may be enough for those who are not competitive athletes and not in the fitness industry who just have GPP goals. Life is random enough. The principle of waving must still be adhered to of course on a weekly basis.

I agree with this and have applied it a lot. There is a big downside to it: with the dice roll, you know the average number you'll get in the long run is 3.5. With life randomness, you just dont know.
A good way to correct this is to keep a good log and do the math every once in a while to make sure you are not too far off 3.5.

 

[guardian7]

I agree with this and have applied it a lot. There is a big downside to it: with the dice roll, you know the average number you'll get in the long run is 3.5. With life randomness, you just dont know.
A good way to correct this is to keep a good log and do the math every once in a while to make sure you are not too far off 3.5.

A valid point. The way I keep track is a goal of three days a week, regardless. If I am on track for three workouts a week, all is good. At my age of 50, the goal is just to keep going. Others here may require a stricter approach.

 

[Xene]

I did rop with a+a snatches. It worked well. I kept those sessions in 10-16min range.

I am doing A+A snatches myself (without ROP) and I think those short A+A sessions are not the way it's originally designed. A+A profits from those longer sessions. You go for 45-60 minutes (not every training, but sometimes) and you will need this for especially for your aerobic development.

For me A+A & ROP is too much volume. I would suggest Q&D + ROP and after 6-12 weeks do A+A with 'some' pressing for the same time frame and then switch back and forth.

 

[Sauli]

I am doing A+A snatches myself (without ROP) and I think those short A+A sessions are not the way it's originally designed. A+A profits from those longer sessions. You go for 45-60 minutes (not every training, but sometimes) and you will need this for especially for your aerobic development.

For me A+A & ROP is too much volume. I would suggest Q&D + ROP and after 6-12 weeks do A+A with 'some' pressing for the same time frame and then switch back and forth.

Yeah. If I'm gonna make rop again someday I will do only presses 3 times a week and q&d snatch twice a week.
I did this last winter/spring. There was not q&d yet.

 

[ali]

Life is random enough. The principle of waving must still be adhered to of course on a weekly basis.

That's how I roll, too! I'm anti dice but very much pro waving.
I can see how the random roll of dice to input waviness is appealing but I think its application is dependent on the user's routines, or lack of.
My life is a chaotic mess at the best of times. I'm self employed with random amounts of work and income, with a family. No days are ever certain, thus no weeks or months are 'that' predictable. Play that against a person with a steady job and days and weeks of predictable routine then the input of a dice roll to create randomness is maybe different. But if you were to compare predictable waviness, with flexibility should the need arise, to random dice waviness could you tell them apart in terms of total volume? Perhaps with prejudice and knowledge of which was which but overtime, mathematically, no. And, further, if the point is to create waviness, does it matter if it is predictable or uncertain? And the answer to that is a personal preference, rather than the mathematics underpinning the outcome.
Big fan of delta 20 for waving.