all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Rite Of Passage

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
kaptajnos

kaptajnos

Level 2 Valued Member
Hey Guys its me again with the stupid questions :)

I would love some advice again. so here goes:

Last the few months i been "mainly" doing The Giant.
So started of with 3.0 Doubble 20kgs, and running 1.1 after 1.0.
1.0 week 1 :hit 101Reps in total
1.1 week 3 : Hit 194- in 25 mins

I thought id spice things up abit and after @mvikred surgested ROP - I have begun my journey and here lies the "problem" :)
I tryed to test my 24kg press, and its still super weak, maybe 1-3-RM what i find abit odd, since my 20kg press have impproved alot.
havent tested my RM with the 20kgs- but i can do 8 sets of 8 now.. Also i found out that it seems its "easyer" for me to do doubble presses then single presses isnt that slighty odd ?

So right now im running the template with 24 Kgs, and mostly doing 1-2 reps and i added 1 lader to hard day instead of rungs to 3, sometimes i need to pushpress the 2nd rep.
would it be ok to continue like that and just adding a few strict presses when feeling strong, or would it be better to drop down a kell size? i just feel that would be too "easy" with rungs to 3 with the 20kg bell- i could just jump forward in the program weeks and do more Rungs and ladders ofc
So i feel like im abit in limbo, since the 20s kg are abit too light and the 24 are too heavy :S

On a site note, my right arm is alot stronger than my left due to i had a minor discus prolapse a nerve got cought so i lost all Strengh in my left arm, so i went from something like 5 RM max on the 24s to not being able to press 8 kg :S

Looking forward for some clever imput, and i hope my post makes sence :)

Love Morty
 
@kaptajnos:
Here is an idea:

Continue with singles with your 24 kg bell. Work up to 30 reps on your heavy day, doing 50% of it on your light day and 75% on your medium day. Then try to do the 30 reps with ladders of (1,2), dropping to singles if necessary. After that you should be ready to go with the (1,2,3) progression. Maybe stay on a given step for more than a week to solidify you gains. And maybe rest more between sets than you are used to!

Another variation could be to do singles GTG throught the day. As an option, deload the negative: "A note to Comrades who apply the “Grease the Groove” program from my book The Naked Warrior to the kettlebell military press: lowering the lion’s share of your presses—say three-quarters of all the reps—two-handed will enable you to handle a greater volume without fatigue" (Pavel in ETK Special Report #1). (Put the free hand on the body of the bell for this maneuver.)
 
Bauer said:
@kaptajnos:
Here is an idea:

Continue with singles with your 24 kg bell. Work up to 30 reps on your heavy day, doing 50% of it on your light day and 75% on your medium day. Then try to do the 30 reps with ladders of (1,2), dropping to singles if necessary. After that you should be ready to go with the (1,2,3) progression. Maybe stay on a given step for more than a week to solidify you gains. And maybe rest more between sets than you are used to!

Another variation could be to do singles GTG throught the day. As an option, deload the negative: "A note to Comrades who apply the “Grease the Groove” program from my book The Naked Warrior to the kettlebell military press: lowering the lion’s share of your presses—say three-quarters of all the reps—two-handed will enable you to handle a greater volume without fatigue" (Pavel in ETK Special Report #1). (Put the free hand on the body of the bell for this maneuver.)
Click to expand...
Thx Bauer for the quick reply that makes sence :) also GTG sounds like a plan, i been doin it on/off with my pullups so just throw in a press looks like a plan
 
Another option would to use the 24 for the first rung of the ladder and then move to the 20s.
When you get to a full load of ladders do the first 2 rungs with the 24 and then move to the 20s and keep doing that until you can work the 24 in completely
 
Editing to add that I am currently working The Giant and I have worked ROP in the past.
I really like ROP, but the time commitment for all the ladders is too much for my schedule right now, where The Giant is a tight 30 minutes.
 
ClayPainter said:
Another option would to use the 24 for the first rung of the ladder and then move to the 20s.
When you get to a full load of ladders do the first 2 rungs with the 24 and then move to the 20s and keep doing that until you can work the 24 in completely
Click to expand...
that is also a great idea :) thanks for the imput
 
tomstranger said:
I would run Soju and Tuba if I was in your shoes. The other options above also sound good. More than one way to tackle this, but I think the common theme is going to be building some volume starting with singles with that 24kg bell.
Click to expand...
im not familer with Soju and Tuba, sounds prettty kinky though i gotta google that :)
 
kaptajnos said:
Hey Guys its me again with the stupid questions :)

I would love some advice again. so here goes:

Last the few months i been "mainly" doing The Giant.
So started of with 3.0 Doubble 20kgs, and running 1.1 after 1.0.
1.0 week 1 :hit 101Reps in total
1.1 week 3 : Hit 194- in 25 mins

I thought id spice things up abit and after @mvikred surgested ROP - I have begun my journey and here lies the "problem" :)
I tryed to test my 24kg press, and its still super weak, maybe 1-3-RM what i find abit odd, since my 20kg press have impproved alot.
havent tested my RM with the 20kgs- but i can do 8 sets of 8 now.. Also i found out that it seems its "easyer" for me to do doubble presses then single presses isnt that slighty odd ?

So right now im running the template with 24 Kgs, and mostly doing 1-2 reps and i added 1 lader to hard day instead of rungs to 3, sometimes i need to pushpress the 2nd rep.
would it be ok to continue like that and just adding a few strict presses when feeling strong, or would it be better to drop down a kell size? i just feel that would be too "easy" with rungs to 3 with the 20kg bell- i could just jump forward in the program weeks and do more Rungs and ladders ofc
So i feel like im abit in limbo, since the 20s kg are abit too light and the 24 are too heavy :S

On a site note, my right arm is alot stronger than my left due to i had a minor discus prolapse a nerve got cought so i lost all Strengh in my left arm, so i went from something like 5 RM max on the 24s to not being able to press 8 kg :S

Looking forward for some clever imput, and i hope my post makes sence :)

Love Morty
Click to expand...
You could run the ROP using the 24 for singles then the 20 for subsequent rungs. For example 1 rep with the 24 and reps 2/3/4/5 with the 20. As you get stronger you could add rungs with the 24. If this is what @Bauer said I apologize but I haven't had my coffee yet!

Just keep plugging away!
 
I would recommend sticking to the RoP plan and using the 20kg. RoP is designed for using a roughly 5-8 RM bell (non-dominant side). You will not be successful with a 3RM bell. My opinion is that you will struggle through the suggestions listed above using the heavier bell and will not complete the plan.

Using the 20 and having the discipline to complete the plan will establish a strong baseline to build from going forward. What's the rush? Master the 20 and move on to the 24 when you have 5-8 clean reps on both sides. Slow and steady.
 
Run S&T with a pull up or two between rounds to keep your pull up strength up, or do weighted pull ups for singles then doubles and then triples like S&T will run with your presses. After your session do 50-60 swings/snatches. Nothing crazy, just keep your hinge groove. Swings would be best as you are getting plenty of shoulder work as the sessions go on.
 
James Sullivan said:
I would recommend sticking to the RoP plan and using the 20kg. RoP is designed for using a roughly 5-8 RM bell (non-dominant side). You will not be successful with a 3RM bell. My opinion is that you will struggle through the suggestions listed above using the heavier bell and will not complete the plan.

Using the 20 and having the discipline to complete the plan will establish a strong baseline to build from going forward. What's the rush? Master the 20 and move on to the 24 when you have 5-8 clean reps on both sides. Slow and steady.
Click to expand...
The more awaken and think about it, I think @James Sullivan is right. Just use the 20.
 
Another way to put it: Don't force a plan on the wrong bells for the job.

You could have a look at this thread and find a plan that suits your bells.

Kettlebell - KB Pressing Plans Based on Different RM

What are your go-to plans for a specific RM-bell? I guess we could further distinguish plans by whether they focus more on strength, hypertrophy of both. Bell Plan Notes Volume 2-4 kg less than 1RM Soju and Tuba (Joey Yang & Mark Limbaga) 18 sessions, low volume low 5-8 RM ROP (Pavel)...
www.strongfirst.com
 
Bauer said:
Another way to put it: Don't force a plan on the wrong bells for the job.

You could have a look at this thread and find a plan that suits your bells.

Kettlebell - KB Pressing Plans Based on Different RM

What are your go-to plans for a specific RM-bell? I guess we could further distinguish plans by whether they focus more on strength, hypertrophy of both. Bell Plan Notes Volume 2-4 kg less than 1RM Soju and Tuba (Joey Yang & Mark Limbaga) 18 sessions, low volume low 5-8 RM ROP (Pavel)...
www.strongfirst.com
Click to expand...
I would respectfully add that the plan should fit not only the bells, but many other factors including; experience level (how may years have you been pressing), how much time you can afford to put aside for your training sessions, number of sessions per week, total plan duration, other lifestyle factors which affect recovery and overall stress level...

This is a long, long, long, long, long game and if you push your luck, or hard charge you will find your limits and be setback.
 
kaptajnos said:
Hey Guys its me again with the stupid questions :)

I would love some advice again. so here goes:

Last the few months i been "mainly" doing The Giant.
So started of with 3.0 Doubble 20kgs, and running 1.1 after 1.0.
1.0 week 1 :hit 101Reps in total
1.1 week 3 : Hit 194- in 25 mins

I thought id spice things up abit and after @mvikred surgested ROP - I have begun my journey and here lies the "problem" :)
I tryed to test my 24kg press, and its still super weak, maybe 1-3-RM what i find abit odd, since my 20kg press have impproved alot.
havent tested my RM with the 20kgs- but i can do 8 sets of 8 now.. Also i found out that it seems its "easyer" for me to do doubble presses then single presses isnt that slighty odd ?

So right now im running the template with 24 Kgs, and mostly doing 1-2 reps and i added 1 lader to hard day instead of rungs to 3, sometimes i need to pushpress the 2nd rep.
would it be ok to continue like that and just adding a few strict presses when feeling strong, or would it be better to drop down a kell size? i just feel that would be too "easy" with rungs to 3 with the 20kg bell- i could just jump forward in the program weeks and do more Rungs and ladders ofc
So i feel like im abit in limbo, since the 20s kg are abit too light and the 24 are too heavy :S

On a site note, my right arm is alot stronger than my left due to i had a minor discus prolapse a nerve got cought so i lost all Strengh in my left arm, so i went from something like 5 RM max on the 24s to not being able to press 8 kg :S

Looking forward for some clever imput, and i hope my post makes sence :)

Love Morty
Click to expand...
I think @James Sullivan is on the right track, but I think I'd throw in two "options."

Option 1: Stick with the 20kg for ROP. If you finish the ladder progression (5x1-2-3-4-5) with the 20kg easily, and still aren't ready to move to 24kg, start decreasing rest with the goal of 1:1 Work:Rest between reps and ladders. So 1 rep right/left takes you 20s, rest 20s, then do the 2 rep rung, etc. If the 5/5 rep rung takes 1 minute, then you have 1 minute rest before your next ladder. After you can complete all 5 ladders with 5 rungs at this, switch to 2-3-5 ladders and work up to 10 ladders on heavy day, then start adding a fourth rung of 10 reps, with the goal of getting to 5 ladders of 2-3-5-10 on heavy day. This is my preferred option - I find getting those higher reps to be great, but you do have to be careful that you don't get lax on your technique.

Option 2: Use the 24kg on your light days - so at first you're running it for 3x1, and then slowly growing it each week. This makes your light day your heavy weight day but your light volume day. Your heavy and medium days become more of a medium weight / higher volume days, and if you want to run it at full ladders (5x-1-2-3-4-5), cool, but the light day is the one you're progressing so it is no longer based off your heavy day.

Personally, option 1 is my favorite and I've used it to make a light weight an effective training stimulus. I've used option 2 and it has its place, but I feel better for longer when I use a method like Option 1. Grinding into a weight has its place, I just like using it less now-a-days than I used to.
 
John K said:
I think @James Sullivan is on the right track, but I think I'd throw in two "options."

Option 1: Stick with the 20kg for ROP. If you finish the ladder progression (5x1-2-3-4-5) with the 20kg easily, and still aren't ready to move to 24kg, start decreasing rest with the goal of 1:1 Work:Rest between reps and ladders. So 1 rep right/left takes you 20s, rest 20s, then do the 2 rep rung, etc. If the 5/5 rep rung takes 1 minute, then you have 1 minute rest before your next ladder. After you can complete all 5 ladders with 5 rungs at this, switch to 2-3-5 ladders and work up to 10 ladders on heavy day, then start adding a fourth rung of 10 reps, with the goal of getting to 5 ladders of 2-3-5-10 on heavy day. This is my preferred option - I find getting those higher reps to be great, but you do have to be careful that you don't get lax on your technique.

Option 2: Use the 24kg on your light days - so at first you're running it for 3x1, and then slowly growing it each week. This makes your light day your heavy weight day but your light volume day. Your heavy and medium days become more of a medium weight / higher volume days, and if you want to run it at full ladders (5x-1-2-3-4-5), cool, but the light day is the one you're progressing so it is no longer based off your heavy day.

Personally, option 1 is my favorite and I've used it to make a light weight an effective training stimulus. I've used option 2 and it has its place, but I feel better for longer when I use a method like Option 1. Grinding into a weight has its place, I just like using it less now-a-days than I used to.
Click to expand...
I think these are clever options, but why complicate? Keep the plan simple and achievable. If the plan with a 20 is too easy (which my feeling is that it is not too easy) what's the harm in that? No risk at all, but you are guaranteed to be ready for the 24. Adding and pushing it induces tons of risk. What's the benefit? Best case you maybe save a few weeks in a lifetime pursuit? Not worth it in my opinion. The more probable outcome is discouragement and setback. Enjoy the process. Master your technique. Finish the plan as written.
 
Thank you all for your super Advice. i really appreciate it !

Its not that i have a "problem" running the program with 20kgs, its just after i did all of these doubble C&P on the Giant program, in my mind its just a crazy amount of deload to start ladders all over beginning at 3x3 reps on single Presses. i just like the idea that im actually getting more reps in or improving in time (if you know what i mean ?)
Im just a tad wierd person in that way i think. On the other hand i havent snatched very much in the past and doing 10 on each side with the 24kgs is really close to my TRM, so i guess starting abit lighter wouldnt hurt.
I do really like the idea that @John K threw in option 1.

But as always im always amazed by the amount of help and love in this forum
We are goin on a trip to Edenburg for a few days so ill have some time to ponder over what to do next :)
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom