Nutrition Robb Wolff book- meat and vegan

[dobie]

Just started book by rob wolff. Excellent so far.
Toying with the idea of more meat consumption- specifically beef, the right kind- regenerative practice, etc. no factory meat and less carbs. Figured it was a good place to start.
Two questions-1- any other great resources to look into for this purpose.
2- have a family member who is vegan. Has been for 2-3 years. They are using the moral argument of killing animals against me. Any good ideas or resources for this?
Thank you!

 

[Halgnovast]

2¢

Vegan from what I recall is a complete philosophy, ethic lifestyle. You cannot consume in any way whatsoever animal products. The downside of this is things like car tires aren't vegan. The death caused by farm equipment on farms is substantial. That 720+ study meta analysis that the WHO did shows that not eating meat causes just about as much or more cancer that eating processed meats. Our brains and guts evolved on calorie dense animal fat sources. People that are life long vegan live shorter lives, malnourished lives. There are very few plant sources of essential amino acids, and they are nowhere near as bioavailable as animal sources, if they aren't prohibited. According to Joe Rogan, vegans stop having their own opinions and get all bendy /s. As somebody who is atkins forward and married a vegan, if you're honest with yourself it's about as sustainable a philosophy as being a nihilist, except the irony is that you do care. Personally, I think it is a marketing tactic to get people on plant based diets for all the long term ill it does to our minds and bodies. *Big pharma enters the chat*

 

[silveraw]

I'm not sure what you are looking for.
Resources to enforce your new eating habits you read about? Just read more Robb Wolfe books.
broader scientific nutritional info? Hands down, the ted talk "The Scientific Landscape of Healthy Eating" is where you want to start that.


As for your second question. Are their ethical arguments making sense to you and that makes you uncomfortable? If that is the case, you should probably spend some time on your personal ethics. I'd start with Plato's Ethics (but wouldn't stop there). You can find that free online pretty easily, it is a few thousand years out of Copyright and solidly a public domain work. (project Gutenberg would be my first stop). I'd also recommend Michael Pollan's book The Omnivore's Delimma as a take on food ethics. Just remember ethics don't equate to healthy.

Vegan from what I recall is a complete philosophy, ethic lifestyle.

It takes the idea of vegitarianism the the extreme. Pretty much the relationship of carnivore with keto. I wouldn't describe it as complete. I've met a few ethically bankrupt people that were vegan.

The downside of this is things like car tires aren't vegan.

this depends on where the tire companies sources its searic acid. There are a few large ones that source it from plants.

That 720+ study meta analysis that the WHO did shows that not eating meat causes just about as much or more cancer that eating processed meats. Our brains and guts evolved on calorie dense animal fat sources. People that are life long vegan live shorter lives, malnourished lives.

I'd love to see a link to that study.

There are very few plant sources of essential amino acids, and they are nowhere near as bioavailable as animal sources, if they aren't prohibited.

To be fair, the inverse is also true. Carnivore diets are missing/low in essential nutrients that could easily be gotten if they were allowed an orange or two. Overly restrictive diets are just plain hard to do healthily. Although personally I think it would be easier to do a vegan diet healthily than carnivore. I'd rather eat an orange than raw lung or spleen to get vitamin c. And I enjoy laying a good fiber rich poop in the morning.

 

[Halgnovast]

It wasn't their conclusion. I saw a couple deep dives into the entire paper and the evaluations of the studies used and this is the basis for what I said. If you want the statements made from simple correlations here you go
Lots of wishy washy language and hand waving. You can correlate many things inappropriately and it's easy when you rule out other factors that contribute much more to things like cancer, like grains, alcohol and sugars.

I've met vegans that eat sushi. Vegan is absolutist. They were not vegan, but don't tell them that. Nobody wants to be told that the Good Guy badge their wearing is a lie.

If you're actually eating carnivore, you don't need the staggering amounts of vitamins like C, because you don't have other nutrients blocking uptake. You get plenty of C from eating liver, and other less kid friendly animal products, like you mentioned.

Personal preferences are great. If somebody feels like they poop better eating a certain kind of way, awesome. I'm not trying to stop people from doing what they want. But, there is a good better best grade to diets for biological humans and vegan is off the table without investing in a lot of supplements. Carnivore is too if you don't eat the right organs and enough fats.

People are addicted to comforts, like not having to think about what they should eat, and just having it told to them. I found the hard way there are too many financial conflicts of interest in that paradigm and would rather just not.

 

[silveraw]

I've met vegans that eat sushi. Vegan is absolutist. They were not vegan, but don't tell them that

You sure they weren’t pescatarian? Similar ethics to vegan but with a bit more nuance based on the fishs nervous system.

But yeah. Lots of wishywashy language in nutrition science. Mainly because there is a lot of data and unexpected things. Like someone comes up with a mechanistic reason why something should be bad for you. Then they do randomized human trials and find the exact opposite thing happens. Seed oil is a great example of this. Theoretically based on mechanical models it should do terrible things. But I’m actual people studies, it seems to be neutral to slightly beneficial.

Like the old saying. In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they aren’t.

That said I’m curious to see the research come out on carnivore. Pretty much the only thing I could find was a paper based on polling a carnivore diet facebook group funded by a company that sells carnivore books. I’ll bet you can guess what they found there lol.

 

[North Coast Miller]

My 2¢, if someone is vegan for ethical reasons you aren’t going to get very far changing their mind.

Not going into the science much since dietary issues are rife with misinformation and speculation. However the evidence suggest sapiens et al got turbocharged from cooked high density carbs. This being assumed since cooking does little or nothing for nutritional quality of meat and the brain prefers carbs anyway. This also allowed for smaller more efficient digestive system.