ROP and 1RM KB press

Marino

Triple-Digit Post Count
Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on the relationship between the weight with which one can do 5 5 rung ladders in the clean and press and a 1 RM in the clean and press?

So to pick some numbers out of the air, if you are trying to get to a half body weight clean and press (one of the goals in ROP) - say that this is 40kg - if you can do 5 ladders of 5 rungs with a 28 (with e.g. 5 minute breaks between each ladder) would you expect to be able to do a single with the 40?
 

Pavel

Founder and Chairman
Master Certified Instructor
David, 28kg—most likely not. 32kg—most likely yes.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
David, I've done the ROP twice with a 24 kg and gotten a 32 kg press as my 1RM at the end. 32 kg is my 1/2 bw press.

I would typically incorporate a little bit of heavier work towards the end of my ROP, e.g., I might do some of the rungs of 1 or even 1 and 2 with a 28 kg, just to get used to the weight. If you think about it, being able to do doubles with 28 kg likely means a 3-4 rep max with that weight, and that's helpful in being able to do 32 kg for a single.

24 kg is 75% of 32 kg, and 28 kg is 88% of 32 kg. 32 kg is 80% of 40 kg.

Speaking for myself here, I would find 5 ladders to 5 with 80% pretty taxing. 28 kg is 70%. If I was doing the ROP and aiming for 40 kg, I'd consider duct-taping a few plates on my 28 to turn it into a 30, or finding a 65 lb. bell or something along those lines.

Another option, and a fine one, IMHO, would be mixing the weights in the ROP, e.g., if you use 28 kg for the rung of 5 and 32 kg for the rest, you get an average weight of 30.6 kg. If you use 28 kg for the rungs of 4 and of 5, you get an average of 29.6 kg. I like those numbers better. And have a 36 around for some singles as doubles work as the ROP progresses.

Last but certainly not least, there have been several offers posted here to contact StrongFirst about following experimental press programs - you might email contact@strongfirst.com and ask about one of those, too.

-S-
 

Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
From my experience and the experience of my students, what really worked are the get-ups (5x1) and loaded cleans (5x5) with the bell heavier than the one you use for ROP on the variety days - I would recommend to get at least to 40 in your case. The girevik gets used to heavier weight both in the rack and on the top of the press - especially shaky clean is a cause of the failure in many occasions when testing 1RM.

Lots of (relatively) easy presses + heavy cleans + heavy get-ups = heavy 1RM press.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
Excellent advice. I also used to "play" with the heavier bell by jerking it overhead then doing a yielding press (lowering back to the rack under complete control). The principle is the same - get used to cleaning it and having it overhead.

-S-
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
David/Pavel, maybe I'm an exception but when I went through the ROP I worked up to training with the 36kg bell with the 48kg being my target for the 1/2 bw press.

I started the ROP with a 24, then did a 28, followed by the 32 and finally the 36kg. Took obviously many weeks but I didn't care, I just plugged through it religiously.

On a test day I did the 44kg with no problem and shortly thereafter tried the 48 and got it. I assume the high volume pressing helped.

Just keep plugging through it, it does work.
 

Pavel

Founder and Chairman
Master Certified Instructor
John, well done! What was your 1RM when you started and how long did it take you to get to 48kg?
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Pavel, I started the ROP in December of 2009. At the time I weighed about 200 and could not get the 40kg comfortably. I decided to be patient and just keep going through the ROP. By late 2011 I got the beast. So it took a while but I didn't care. I would go through with a given weight and then repeat it going through with the same weight but in less time. Was a lot of volume but it did work.

I ended up putting on mass in the hips and shoulders reaching 210 but with better conditioning and body comp.

From there I started doing Geoff Neuperts as well as your doubles programs and have been there since. (Rtk, kettlebell muscle, kettlebell strong)

Frankly, I think the ROP is a program you could stay on for life. I considered going back to it at some point starting with the 40s and working through it until I can do ladders with the beast.
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
I mean no disrespect to anyone but I think a lot of times people say they have done the ROP by going through it once and reaching 5 by 5 ladders with a given weight. Thats not the completion of the ROP unless you hit the goals. Stick with it, it works.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
John, please allow me to echo Pavel's sentiments - you did it by the book, and it worked well for you. That's what I've done, too. The last time through, I used 20 kg before I used 24 kg. The cycling is built in every time you start another ROP so there's no reason anyone couldn't do what you do did.

Again, excellent result!

-S-
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Thanks Steve,

Currently plugging through a doubles program of C&Ps. The doubles do not play by the same rules.....After doing cleans and push presses over the winter and spring going through Geoffs "strong" program, I decided to switch back to the Clean and press and go through "strong" with them. I am using the double 36s right now......Was going to try the double 40s but realized at over 50 now, better to be patient.
 

Pavel

Founder and Chairman
Master Certified Instructor
John, it took some time but you reached the goal. Yes, I intended the ROP as something a person can stay on for years. Well put:

"I mean no disrespect to anyone but I think a lot of times people say they have done the ROP by going through it once and reaching 5 by 5 ladders with a given weight. Thats not the completion of the ROP unless you hit the goals. Stick with it, it works."
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Thanks Pavel, I am now using my patience "philosophy" with Geoffs strong program. My goal is double beasts for a single clean and press which has eluded me. Going through it with the 36s right now, with the 40s my form couldn't stay right. Patience and persistence in my book is what works.
 

Marino

Triple-Digit Post Count
John

Interesting post.

I can press a 36 and nearly a 40.

I can do 10 get ups with the 48 in 12 minutes - it has taken 18 months to get to this.

I am aiming at pressing the beast which is about 1/2 bodyweight for me. I have started RoP once with the 24 - I didn't get to complete 5 set of 5 rung ladders. So a couple of days ago I just decided to see if I could complete it with the 24 and I could. With the 28 I am at 5 sets of 3 rung ladders for the heavy day.

What the string above tells me is that I should keep going with the ROP and expect that when I get to 5, 5 with the 36kg I will be nearly there.
 

jg64

Double-Digit Post Count
Mark, great point. That's why I repeated rounds with the same weight aiming to cut down the time it took to complete the ladders. When I felt I "owned" a given weight I moved on. I viewed the program as a marathon and not a sprint but in about 19 or 20 months I was able to get the goals. My beast press at that time was strong and solid, not wobbly. Better to be patient and have good form and owning it.
 

Mark Limbaga

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Elite Certified Instructor
Try touching base with Jody Beasley. He has a good story to tell with the ROP being done in less time
 
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