Level 7 Valued Member
This is something often asked including by me. They are the two major (but not only of course) kettlebell programmes of Strong First.
This is true. IMO we can see a real and sustainable improvement of general preparedness when we reach Simple and when we maintain that level for a while. Indeed, staying on this program for a while permits to refine technique enough to get a real carryover on the main other move.I think this is in the book, is that one ought to achieve Simple before heading in another direction.
I did not find this to be the case for me, although I believe I have read of others who say it was helpful. However, I do feel like I progressed better w/presses due to having done so many TGUs, but that is just an opinion not based on any solid evidence.For instance, using Simple and heavier permits to increase the standard press without especially train for it (using RoP or whatever press program).
I would say...see my first post on the thread for the detailsNow, in terms of results, what have you noticed? Do you look and feel different than with S&S?
I think that would be the number one reason why I love S&S so much!S&S is nice because it is flexible (aka if you miss a day it doesn't throw your week of training off), leaves you filled with energy, and doesn't take too much time. RoP is a more rigid schedule in terms of 3 days per week (don't miss a day because if you do you have to make it up and press back to back days) and after heavy and even medium days as the volume grows you are left needing a day off. But, the program delivers.
I noticed some the 2nd time around without pull-ups, but I am seeing quicker changes this time around, both in areas worked more by the press and areas worked by the pull ups, which are all hollow position. I am using a heavier bell this time as well.
Okay, so (since I haven't tried it myself) could I say that ROP is simply put more exercise that develops more strength but the tradeoff is that you have to put a lot more into it?IMHO No.
The clean works the same muscles. On top of it you also work snatches and swings in the RoP.
I think I'm able by now to tell what overtraining feels like, and I seem to notice it even with S&S (at the 40kg level) when I don't take a day off here and there or when I add even just a few extras onto my daily workout. I'm learning that training just the right amount and no more is a delicate skill. It all looks easy on paper until you actually go through with it day in and day out and then all these things that seem like cool add ons end up resulting in overtraining.I can definitely say that RoP is much more demanding then S&S. I went from S&S, where I did not reach Simple, to RoP as a prep for the SFG I in October this year in England, doing C&P with the 20 kg bell, snatch with 16kg and swings with 24kg. Last week I was very close to overtraining. My neck started hurting, a cold kept lingering on, general feeling of tiredness, depressed and no energy to start training. I am reverting back to S&S. There is still enough time to work towards the cert in October. I am currently trying to incorporate the Deep Six three times a week in the evening, so separate from S&S, which I do in the morning. Wait and see ...
Thank you. That is interesting. Given I'm a 40YO male and I'm doing the S&S routine with a 40kg kettlebell I suppose I'm coming at this from a different perspective. I suspect I will always be able to TGU a heavier weight than C&P it. Also with swings, I can swing 40 or 48 kg bells but snatch them? Nope. So in my case because I'm able to lift a lot more weight with the S&S routine than I would be able to doing the ROP routine, I don't want to "take the plunge" and go back to 24kg as my workout weight. I think the amount of weight being lifted has an effect on how useful the two programmes are for what goals.I think whether the TGU or the C&P makes you stronger might also be dependent on the person. I can do 16kg TGUs but I didn't notice a huge uptick in my overall strength until I started doing 12kg C&Ps with Rite of Passage. The volume increases in ROP seem to really work well for me in terms of strength development. I would say this: I don't think I could have gotten anywhere with ROP without having Simple under my belt, but I think ROP is doing more for strength for me. Keep in mind I'm a 35 y/o female, so it's unsurprising that volume is the key for me to increase strength. It's (IMO) the same reason why my TGU shot up once I really owned swinging a 50lb kettlebell, because doing 100 heavy swings one handed hit a sweet spot for me in terms of volume and strength as well as conditioning.
So I'd say for me, it's not a case of which is better, it's a case of S&S being the foundation for ROP. I probably would be making decent progress just staying at heavy swings and TGUs, but I like the variety of volume (and the snatch days), plus I've been using the variety days to work through flexibility and mobility progressions, something I had a harder time integrating into S&S.