Question ROP and S&S - Which is better for what goals?

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Questionfear

Level 5 Valued Member
Why does one thing always have to be better than another thing? Better is too subjective. If I only have 3 days a week to train, ROP is probably going to be "better" for me.

They are different. They both work.
Bingo!

This is not a great analogy, but I guess you could look at it like this: I could run 6 miles daily at a steady pace, or I could run 5 miles 3x a week with the middle 3 miles as hardcore speedwork. Both will make me a better runner, but one sacrifices speed for steady volume, while the other maximizes the smaller volume with harder work. If you want to get the most out of the speedwork routine, you need to have put in the time with longer, steady state runs, but it doesn't mean one is inherently better or worse than the other, it's more that one is a prerequisite to getting the most out of the other.
 

rickyw

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi , I have not lost tgu strength from c&p a 24kg. In fact, last summer I pretty much only did snatches with 24kg and I could still tgu a 40 afterwards and I discovered I could also swing a 40kg, even though previously I had only swung 36kg one handed. I think you may be comparing these programs too much in regards to their strength and conditioning effects and not realizing that when you learn to c&p and snatch you are learning how to apply muscular tension and control to different kettlebell moves which ties over to swings and get ups. Even our great @Harald Motz did a cycle of handstand push-ups and A+A work and squats but afterwards went back and started doing high volume get ups with 50kg! Strength is a skill, and the skills StrongFirst teach have a sort of compounding effect on each other.

In all due respect, S&S is awesome, but I think you are thinking yourself out of the benefits of RoP. I would submit if you are that interested in the program to ask all these questions that you take the plunge and really give it a try:)
 
Last edited:

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi , I have not lost tgu strength from c&p a 24kg. In fact, last summer I pretty much only did snatches with 24kg and I could still tgu a 40 afterwards and I discovered I could also swing a 40kg, even though previously I had only swung 36kg one handed. I think you may be comparing these programs too much in regards to their strength and conditioning effects and not realizing that when you learn to c&p and snatch you are learning how to apply muscular tension and control to different kettlebell moves which ties over to swings and get ups. Even our great @Harald Motz did a cycle of handstand push-ups and A+A work and squats but afterwards went back and started doing high volume get ups with 50kg! Strength is a skill, and the skills StrongFirst teach have a sort of compounding effect on each other.

In all due respect, S&S is awesome, but I think you are thinking yourself out of the benefits of RoP. I would submit if you are that interested in the program to ask all these questions that you take the plunge and really give it a try:)
It's starting to look like that. The ROP programme has fascinated me since when I bought the book in the Fall. S&S is just too "simple" hahaha to give up though. I think I can see from those of you who have done both that ROP delivers more strength, but I gather that it's a bit trickier to schedule properly, and it's harder work too, not that S&S is a walk in the park, at least once you've passed Simple.
What Steve Frieds suggested is keeping the swings as is but replacing the TGUs with the pressing programme of ROP. I may give this a try at some point 3 times a week.
It's nice to read that dropping down to lower kettlebell weights from S&S to ROP does not reduce strength.
Anyhow, this thread has become super informative and is giving me lots of ideas.

I don't think S&S past Simple is the same thing. It becomes an advanced, "heavy" programme at that point. It's beyond mere GPP.

Has anyone gotten to Sinister and also passed the ROP? What do you think?
 
Last edited:

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
ROP sticks with the 24 for swings and snatches I think - since the test is with the 24. That's different from S&S's quest for the 48 1 handed.
 

rickyw

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi , I am using the bell I last "owned" for swings in S&S in the RoP as well. I don't recall reading any rule that you have to use the 24kg for swings in RoP, it is just the testing bell for snatches.

I use 24kg for snatches, 32kg for swings.
 

Questionfear

Level 5 Valued Member
@Kozushi , I am using the bell I last "owned" for swings in S&S in the RoP as well. I don't recall reading any rule that you have to use the 24kg for swings in RoP, it is just the testing bell for snatches.

I use 24kg for snatches, 32kg for swings.
I do the same, but for me it is a 24 (I am female).
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi , I am using the bell I last "owned" for swings in S&S in the RoP as well. I don't recall reading any rule that you have to use the 24kg for swings in RoP, it is just the testing bell for snatches.

I use 24kg for snatches, 32kg for swings.
For presses the 32 also?

I started experimenting with daily pressing, not C&P, just P, with the 24. What I noticed is that it makes me feel a wee bit more spent when it comes to the TGUs the next day, but otherwise it doesn't interfere with S&S, and a wee bit more spent is a good thing I think - more exercise and more toning. I like this because even though I've been told I'm not missing out by not doing presses, I still feel like I'm missing out somehow. Pressing is just such a simple, easy exercise with so many benefits. My plan at the moment is to do several sets of 6 overhead presses with the 24 a day at a different time from S&S and see if this leads to being over sore or not. I'll gradually try to go up in weight, maybe once I get to sets of 10 reps or more.

I played around with snatches with the 24 - that's a unique exercise and I'm able to do it well due to the S&S stuff. I may try to schedule a from time to time 100 snatches.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I am using 28kg for presses right now.
You guys got me inspired on the presses. I've already jumped from doing sets of 6 with the 24 to sets of 3 with the 32. It definitely is increasing my strength and muscle mass and burning fat.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

It definitely is increasing my strength and muscle mass and burning fat.
It all depends on if you do other exercises at the same time, such as cleans / snatches and your work to rest ratio.

Nonetheless, I've never been more "ripped" since I do BnP too :)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Hello,


It all depends on if you do other exercises at the same time, such as cleans / snatches and your work to rest ratio.

Nonetheless, I've never been more "ripped" since I do BnP too :)

Kind regards,

Pet'
Agreed. Pressing alone will leave someone pretty fat and without good heart conditioning. Added onto cardio and pulling exercises like swings, and the press becomes golden.

No man is an island, and no exercise is an island either. Oversimplifying exercise is a stupid as oversimplifying science or medicine.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Pressing alone will leave someone pretty fat and without good heart conditioning.
It depends on how you do your presses. If the weight is a little lighter, you can keep your pulse pretty high. Try, e.g., a weight that's about 2/3 of your 1RM press, and start performing clean and press singles, one side C&P, short swing to switch sides, the other side C&P, and just keep going like that. If you're feeling tired, rest as long as you like in the rack position after each press, but make sure each clean and each press is crisp and strong.

I'm pretty sure some of the blog routines we've seen here over the years feature something similar, e.g., clean, press, rack, front squat, switch sides, and repeat.

-S-
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
It depends on how you do your presses. If the weight is a little lighter, you can keep your pulse pretty high. Try, e.g., a weight that's about 2/3 of your 1RM press, and start performing clean and press singles, one side C&P, short swing to switch sides, the other side C&P, and just keep going like that. If you're feeling tired, rest as long as you like in the rack position after each press, but make sure each clean and each press is crisp and strong.

I'm pretty sure some of the blog routines we've seen here over the years feature something similar, e.g., clean, press, rack, front squat, switch sides, and repeat.

-S-
Awesome! Thank you! I'll do that!
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Top Bottom