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Kettlebell ROP support group

That's a great idea Ryan. It's better to err on the side of caution when starting the RoP. The volume has a habit of sneaking up on people.

May I disagree:
I think you can use the 20 kg. Personally I would use the 20.
One of the great benefits of ROP is that you will own a heavy weight over time.
If you can do 5 solid reps you probably can even start with 5 x (1-2-3 ) on the heavy day.
 
May I disagree:
I think you can use the 20 kg. Personally I would use the 20.
One of the great benefits of ROP is that you will own a heavy weight over time.
If you can do 5 solid reps you probably can even start with 5 x (1-2-3 ) on the heavy day.
@Adam Mundorf and @Marc. I think you have both given me great advice. I want to make sure my C&P form is up to snuff, so that was another reason I was going to start with the 16kg. Perhaps I can start sneaking in the 20kg here and there and see how it goes. I know that's not the program per se. I'll feel it out.
 
@Ryan T, I've written about a few relevant options for you in the past, perhaps even in this thread. Anyone care to provide a link?

Thanks, folks.

-S-
 
@Ryan T, I've written about a few relevant options for you in the past, perhaps even in this thread. Anyone care to provide a link?

Thanks, folks.

-S-
I believe you had suggested using the heavier weight for singles or some of the doubles. I do remember that. I am going to try that provided that my start with the 16kg goes well. I haven't gone back to look at it, but you may have mentioned the 24kg.

Thanks Steve.
 
@Ryan T, yes to using the 20 as you can. Also try to progress by more one week on heavy days. See my current ROP log on this site for some ideas. I’m doing an abbreviated 20 kg ROP now.

-S-
 
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the info on ROP. I'm on week 4 with the 24KG and it's going well.

I was wondering what people usually do with the days in between the pressing days. I am currently doing S&S on those days (32kg two handed swings, 24 kg tgu), but am wondering if there is anything else that is recommended to do on those days.

Thanks
 
I would ditch out the swings since you are already doing swings/snatches after your regular sessions. A few get ups probably won' t hurt. Other than that you could do some carries/mobility/stretching/yoga...anything that helps with recovery but nothing too strenous. Save your energy for the main days.
 
A few observations/comments on ROP:

-Pullups are a great exercise but once I got past 5 x (1-2-3) on the heavy day it was simply too much for me and I did C&P only. I did pullups 2x/week on variety days with a weekly volume of ~50 reps or so

-"Armwrestling" oftentimes makes the difference between a rep being happen or not happen. Actively and aggressively armwrestle against the handle. Avoid a "broken wrist" at all costs and stop once you feel it happen.

-What time frame do you consider owned? I'd say once you can do 5 x (1-2-3-4-5) in ~60 mins (without the pullups), you earned your right to move up.

-What's your take on "incomplete ladders", i.e. 1-2-3-4-4 if the 5th rep just didn't happen. I used that approach quite often and found it is a nice way to accumulate volume and build confidence because you know you only have to add one rep instead of a whole rung.
 
What's your take on "incomplete ladders", i.e. 1-2-3-4-4 if the 5th rep just didn't happen. I used that approach quite often and found it is a nice way to accumulate volume and build confidence because you know you only have to add one rep instead of a whole rung.
I've done this before. I like it allot because it allows me to progress at a customized pace. I believe I got the idea from @Steve Freides.
-What time frame do you consider owned? I'd say once you can do 5 x (1-2-3-4-5) in ~60 mins (without the pullups), you earned your right to move up.
I've never actually timed my sessions. I think this may be a recipe for injury since the RoP is a peaking program. The heavy days are supposed to be tough.
-"Armwrestling" oftentimes makes the difference between a rep being happen or not happen. Actively and aggressively armwrestle against the handle. Avoid a "broken wrist" at all costs and stop once you feel it happen.
Completely agreed. You need to keep the tension and control the bell.
-Pullups are a great exercise but once I got past 5 x (1-2-3) on the heavy day it was simply too much for me and I did C&P only. I did pullups 2x/week on variety days with a weekly volume of ~50 reps or so
I agree with this. The press is the main thing and pull ups should be omitted if you're too fatigued. Often times in the beginning of a pressing day I'll begin with my most difficult pull up variation and as fatigue sets in, I'll move towards my strongest pull up form.
 
-What time frame do you consider owned? I'd say once you can do 5 x (1-2-3-4-5) in ~60 mins (without the pullups), you earned your right to move up.
The "own the weight" idea is not part of the ROP - do the volume in however long it takes you to do it in good form. If your goal is hypertrophy, "owning" the weight, or something else that requires a shorter time to completion, go for it, but if your goal is strength, take your time. No time is specified in the book. It is _discussed_ but the choice is up to you.

-S-
 
-What's your take on "incomplete ladders", i.e. 1-2-3-4-4 if the 5th rep just didn't happen. I used that approach quite often and found it is a nice way to accumulate volume and build confidence because you know you only have to add one rep instead of a whole rung.
IMHO, this means you haven't chosen your weight or your rest periods well. You should be able to add one rung per week, and you should start a 1-2-3-4-5 ladder if all you've got in your is 1-2-3-4.

By way of personal example:

I'm timing myself today, and my guess is that I take longer than most folks, and the weight I'm using is still relatively light for me so I'll probably take even longer when I do the program again with a heavier weight.

Actually, here you go, each ladder to 5 was performed like this:

Start Reps approx. work and rest times

00:00 1L/R 0:15 work, 0:45 rest)
01:00 2L/R 0:25 work, 1:05 rest)
02:30 3L/R 0:35 work, 1:20 rest)
04:30 4L/R 0:45 work, 1:45 rest)
07:00 5L/R 0:55 work)

Finish each ladder w/ 10 light (45-85 lbs), high-bar back squats, very deep/relaxed at bottom.

Rest 8-10 minutes between ladders

-S-
 
@Steve Freides - I chanced upon your workout blog and noticed that you do dips (and a variety of variety) as part of your ROP practice. How do you plan and think about the dips? I would think that as a pressing movement they would interfere with the presses. Not so? Also, you seem to program them in a somewhat random fashion. Intuitive training?
 
@jhpowers, I only recently learned to do dips but my main motivation isn't the dip itself - I stretch at the bottom position, and this has been helpful in loosening up a tight right shoulder for me. The stretch is "prehab" and I only do a few dips. I think the most I've ever done is 3 or 4 in a single set, and I've never done more than a couple of sets. I agree with "intuitive training" on this one as a description. It's a new movement to me and I'm just playing with it - not doing enough to really tire anything or to build much strength from them, either.

I'm running through the press portion of the ROP, faster than by the book, with a 20 kg bell because it's been a long while since I've done a kettlebell pressing program and I like what the ROP does for me - this is probably the 4th or 5th time I've done the program. My focus right now is on what I'd call personal GPP. That includes finding things I feel I've neglected in a year and a half that featured powerlifting competitions every 2 months or so, things that I feel address weaknesses of mine. It also includes trying new things like dips, and I'm also reintroducing the windmill to my training, and taking another run at deadlifting with a hook grip. I'm also doing some sprints. I added high bar back squats to my training about six months ago and have just started doing some of those again. It's all good, and if it seems random, it's not. I've got specific things I'm addressing for specific reasons in order to tackle some more specific objectives again soon.

-S-
 
I've seen it said that ROP is a peaking program - ie, something you run short term to peak before switching to an easier, more sustainable program.

However, I didn't really get the sense it was reading the book. I thought it could be run long term, but with regular deloads every couple of months.

Did I miss something?
 
I've seen it said that ROP is a peaking program - ie, something you run short term to peak before switching to an easier, more sustainable program.

However, I didn't really get the sense it was reading the book. I thought it could be run long term, but with regular deloads every couple of months.

Did I miss something?
The reason the RoP is referred too as a peaking program is because by the end of a cycle, the volume is too much to sustain for a long time. You can't repeat 5 x 5 ladders over and over again or you risk burn out. You either need to test with a new weight, start it back over at week 1 or cycle to something different.

If you look at my signature you'll see a quote by Pavel saying, "Ladders never fail;people just give up." You can do ladders indefinitely but the volume you do with those ladders need be waved.
 
The reason the RoP is referred too as a peaking program is because by the end of a cycle, the volume is too much to sustain for a long time. You can't repeat 5 x 5 ladders over and over again or you risk burn out. You either need to test with a new weight, start it back over at week 1 or cycle to something different.

If you look at my signature you'll see a quote by Pavel saying, "Ladders never fail;people just give up." You can do ladders indefinitely but the volume you do with those ladders need be waved.
Ah thank you. Makes sense!
 
I've seen it said that ROP is a peaking program - ie, something you run short term to peak before switching to an easier, more sustainable program.

However, I didn't really get the sense it was reading the book. I thought it could be run long term, but with regular deloads every couple of months.

Did I miss something?
IMHO, a peak every 3 months is something one can repeat, and a by-the-book run through the ROP takes about 13 weeks.

I think a typical run with the ETK ROP is to do it as many times as you need until you either hit a plateau or you reach your 1/2 bodyweight press. E.g., I'm doing it now with 20 kg, with some 24 kg singles and doubles thrown in, and I'm hoping for a 28 kg single at the end. Once I do that, it would be reasonable to do it again with 24 kg and hope for a 32 kg single. I have to focus on my one-arm pushup and thus may not doing it a second time this go-round, but I have done it back-to-back with 20 kg then 24 kg in the past with good effect.

Once you've stopped, sure, it's reasonable to do something else for maintenance and switch your focus to something else while trying to keep your pressing strength at or near the peak you just reached. E.g., when I've gotten my 32 kg press in the past, I've continued with pressing a combination of 28 kg for a few reps, 32 kg for singles, and once a week or so, 24 kg for more reps.

@Adam R Mundorf, I don't recall that testing schedule. I've always tested at the end and don't recall reading anything to suggest otherwise - can you tell us where you found that? Thanks.

-S-
 
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