ROP support group

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by gibbertron, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. f_psych

    f_psych Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    Has anyone tried other conditioning than prescribed snatches&swings? I'm doing my 5th ROP cycle and became curious about Litvisprints ( The Litvinov Workout | T Nation ) . I was thinking about getting rid of snatches&swings at the end of training and doing Litvisprints on variety days.
  2. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Many of us have used the press portion of the ROP without the conditioning portion, and it's been successful as a pressing program that way.

    MarkSch likes this.
  3. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @f_psych to echo @Steve Freides, the pressing part of RoP works as a stand-alone strength program (especially with pull-ups or rows).

    There are other ways to do snatch test prep if you find another format more effective or enjoyable for you.

    If you have other conditioning goals, there is plenty of time on the non-heavy days and non-RoP days to train conditioning however you want.
  4. marco

    marco Double-Digit Post Count

    Hi all,
    I just finished a cycle of Rite of Passage with 20k, I have been pressing for 4 months.

    Now I can press the 36kg twice on R and once L, do a tactical pullup with 36kg x 3 touching the clavicle (I weighted the pullups part only with 5kg!!).

    I weight 74kg (163 pounds) and want to achieve the 40kg press for both sides for the SFG II in october 2020, so I don't want to rush.

    Snatch test next week...

    I loved the RoP and I want to do another cycle with the 24kg.

    On variety days I did PTTP DL and some DFSQ, so I want to take a break even from DL.

    I feel pretty tired now, what do you suggest to do and for how long to "softening up" between cycle?
    Which movements is good to take care now that are not addressed in the RoP?

    Molson likes this.
  5. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Did I read right that you can press the 36 by doing rop with the 20?
  6. marco

    marco Double-Digit Post Count

    Oscar, you read right.

    At the time I recertified SFG and SFB, december 2018, I pressed the 24kg for ten reps each side, I did the "No Distractions" plan by Pavel with HSPU.
    Then I di d a break with S&S for two months until Simple again.
    I did "A simple strengt program" of Dan John that is a DL, SQ, Pullup, and a Press (KB MP in my case) each for 3x(1,2,3) three times a week, I needed a break from ballistics.

    After that I did a program of Geoff Neupert: King-Sized Combos (Kettlebell Express!) which is based on the Press, Front Squat and Snatch, one KB of 20kg.

    Then two months of Rite of Passage.
  7. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Elite Certified Instructor

    Excellent work. How long did you rest between rungs? Ladders?

    If you have a vid of some of your ROP sessions, I'd like to take a look as I may learn a thing or two
  8. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    That is pretty amazing, thanks for the detailed reply. May I ask why did you choose to use the 20, when you could press the 24 10 times?
    Steve Freides and Molson like this.
  9. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Yes, I'd like to know that, too.

  10. marco

    marco Double-Digit Post Count

    I have no video, but I can describe it well.
    As warm up I did, for the vast majority of sessions, 2 sets of 5 of GSQ alternate with Halo, then 2-3 TGU per side, the weight went from 24 to 32, dependent on how I felt that day, I want to feel my upper back solid before pressing.
    Sometimes 2-3 BU presses between TGU with 16KG.

    Between rungs I usually did Fast&Loose drills and if too fatigued some kind of breathing tecnique.
    Between ladders some OS resets Standing X-crawl, rocking, standing rolling and head nods on forearms, no count, just move and kept an empty mind, no smartphone at all in my courage corner, neither music (Do Not Be Afraid To Be Alone), as DOE Brett Jones;)

    Mostly I used to clean before each press with one KB (about 85% of the whole program), but when short on time I usually did one clean and sometimes used the double clean and press.

    I often work on the woods, cutting trees in impervious areas and then carring the logs for even hundreds of meters all day, yes some times a lot of OH carry.
    When I was too tired from the job I did three ladders in one session (morning) then two ladders + the swing session in another session (evening).

    I changed the grip often on pullups.

    On variety days I did DL from PTTP and sometimes 2-3 sets of 5 of BW ring dips to check my shoulders stability and to keep it.
    runninggirevik and Oscar like this.
  11. marco

    marco Double-Digit Post Count

    Oscar and Steve, sure

    I decided to use 20kg for several reasons.
    I was not pressing for a while, about 2 months, so I started light. I did other press programs, but none of them had as much the volume as the RoP so, as we say often, when in doubt go for the light one.

    If you read in ETK with which KB size start is clear...I was tempted to use the 16!!! I wanted to be SURE to close the program without interfering with my life and job.

    I have a press goal for october 2020 (SFG II in Italy), it is about a year and half, so it is a long haul and I want to build up without rushing, maybe before that appointment I can run other two and maybe three RoP cycles with a heavier KB.
    At the moment I am not chasing numbers and even with a 20kg I felt to become stronger every session.

    I have another reason. I made a statement with myself, maybe it is only mental, but it seems to work for me: "I do not train to get stronger, I train to demonstrate strength and mastery, I am already strong"
    And if you read articles like Practice vs Performance, The blank Serenity of the Invulnerable and many articles in this wonderfull forum as well the new book of Tim Anderson (The becoming Bulletproof Project) you understand my reasons.

    Once in a post you Steve answered that using a too heavy KB for the RoP is asking for trouble.
    But don't worry, I will run it with 24 and 28 or 32 too.
    I have time... so THANK YOU GUYS!
    Anna C, Molson and Glen like this.
  12. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Yes, but ...

    My specific recommendation is that, while the book suggests a 5-8 rep max, a 10-rep max is also OK. But if you can press the 36 for a single, you are _way_ past a 10-rep max @ 24 kg. I could press the 24 kg for 10 reps when I did my first ROP with the 24, and at that time I couldn't press even the 32 kg for a single, let alone the 36. While I'm happy you completed the ROP with 20 kg, I don't know that you accomplished much for yourself. Even 24 kg may not be a real challenge for you.

    I will offer one further word of advice that I've given before - feel free to do more than just the next prescribed session on each heavy day, and perhaps you'll go through your 24 kg ROP in only 6-8 weeks instead of 13. And then you can begin an ROP with 28 kg, and finally that might be challenging for you.

    marco and Oscar like this.
  13. Glen

    Glen Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Do you think this is true for everyone Steve in terms of Rep maxes? Personally I find my ability to rep submaximal weights does not tally with my maxes. Often I can do 10 or so with weight that is 85-90% of my max.

    In Deadlifts for example I might be doing 3-4 reps with a weight, add on a minimal amount and the weight just not budge
  14. marco

    marco Double-Digit Post Count

    In fact one option I was considering before starting the RoP was to run a cicle of DFW with 24 then RoP with 28.
    Now I know what is the taste of a RoP, so I can do this option.

    Glen, I rescontred it personally some months ago, when I was testing some students for a RELOAD barbell cicle. Some very slow twitch fibers dominant seemed far from maximal but when added a little of weight the bar didn't move.
    Others fast twitch dominant seemed almost done but kept going adding weight for several sets.
  15. Glen

    Glen Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I've always felt physically I do well at endurance stuff but can't stand the training. Maybe I'm just pushing against my own physiology constantly by being strength focused :D
    marco likes this.
  16. Adam R Mundorf

    Adam R Mundorf More than 500 posts

    What's the opinion on "coasting" by repeating the same ladder/rep scheme for a couple weeks before progressing to a longer ladder?

    For example, keeping 3(1,2,3) as your benchmark for 2 weeks instead of jumping up to 4(1,2,3) the next heavy day?

    I want to really own these three ladders before progressing.....
  17. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    ROTK has you stay at the top of a full ladder until you can’t shave any more time off, then give yourself more time and add a rung. You would still make gains this way, probably mostly hypertrophy (same work in less time) and strength-endurance (able to repeat a given effort with less and less rest).
    Adam R Mundorf likes this.
  18. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    IIRC this is fine by the book. We are supposed to increase when we can, so the 13 weeks would be maximum speed. That's how I understood it.
    Adam R Mundorf likes this.
  19. Adam R Mundorf

    Adam R Mundorf More than 500 posts

    Thank you and @Sean M for the responses. I'm assuming that this technique would work less efficiently as the ladder and rungs grow? Because you're sort of peaking with the volume?
  20. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @Adam R Mundorf I personally wouldn't do it, because a) it's a technique better suited to double bells (hence it's in ROTK), and b) my next heavy day is (say) five ladders to 3 with only one of them (first ladder) to a 4th rung - you are really just repeating your last heavy day (plus an extra set of 4 reps), then repeating your last heavy day again in a few days (the new medium day). I would keep climbing the rungs on the heavy day, but maybe try to beat my 5-ladders-to-previous-rung session time on the medium day.

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