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Barbell Rotating PTTP Cycles of Deadlift and Squat?

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NonStop

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Hi there,

I'm intrigued to know if rotating cycles of deadlift and squat would work - that is to say the strength gained in one cycle of deadlifts/squats would still carry over to the next cycle of the same exercise?

I like the idea of getting stronger in the barbell deadlift and back squat and I know that powerlifters generally train both at the same time, but I really like easier style strength training (like PTTP) - its given me great strength gains in the past and really suits my lifestyle and I don't mind that it would take longer to get stronger in the dead and squat (given that they're not trained in the same cycle).

Many thanks in advance.
 
PTTP's choice of the deadlift suits the program for many reasons, not the least of which is the importance of the skill/CNS component of deadlifting. A lot of people squat in order to get bigger, and I don't think 2 sets of 5 every day will help them do that, although it certainly should help them improve their skill at the squat.

You might choose a non-barbell or otherwise "odd" version of one of the two lifts if you wish to train both at the same time, e.g., do a barbell deadlift and a 2-kettlebell front squat, or a barbell back squat and a thick bar DL.

Note that in the version I recommended, adding pullups, you're still talking about one big, lower-body-focused movement and two upper body moves that are known to compliment each other. That wouldn't be the case with the SQ and DL.

-S-
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall Pavel saying that the only lifts not suitable for PTTP are the Olympic lifts, which makes sense. My understanding was that all other compound lifts - squat, bench, deadlift, and press - are all suitable for PTTP. As I recall, the book recommended the side-press rather than the press because the press is slightly more technical than the side-press and people new to training would not properly do the press. Also, unless you have a rack you'll need to clean the bar into place and many people cannot properly clean.

The squat is actually very well suited to frequent training. It is considered slightly more technical than the deadlift so frequent training will result in better improvements.
 
@Steve Freides In the interest of being fair and accurate, back on the DD forum someone asked if they could use PTTP for the Olympic lifts, and Pavel, in his usual brevity, responded "no." I have never heard/read Pavel specifically say that other lifts besides the DL and side press could be used for PTTP, but I've also never heard him that PTTP couldn't be used for other lifts. I did read a post by Pavel stating that if he were to release PTTP today he would add the bench press instead of the side press. If bench is okay for PTTP I don't see why the squat couldn't used as well.
 
@MikeTheBear, our OP, @NonStop, asked a question that I didn't correctly answer. He asked about rotating cycles of DL and SQ. I think that's an approach more likely to work than what I misread and responded to, which was training them both at the same time or substituting the SQ for the DL.
NonStop said:
I'm intrigued to know if rotating cycles of deadlift and squat would work - that is to say the strength gained in one cycle of deadlifts/squats would still carry over to the next cycle of the same exercise?
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I think the answer to this question is that maybe you'd get some carryover.

So much of the carryover between SQ and DL depends, e.g., depends on if you are doing a PL style squat, which I believe has more carryover to the DL than a narrower stance and/or higher bar and/or front squat. And if you DL sumo, I believe you'll also experience more carryover from your SQ to your DL.

My experience has been that the deadlift doesn't have much carryover to any form of barbell squat - the carryover seems to work better for most people in the other direction.

-S-
 
I think I've experienced decent carryover from the deadlift to the squat and backwards. Back when I started barbell training, I had to soon stop squatting due to a shoulder injury I got when I was racking the bar after a squat set. So I deadlifted a lot. My healing process took a couple of months, and I felt much stronger when I started squatting again and made fast progress with it. A little time afterwards, I stopped deadlifting for a while to concentrate on squats, and after my squat cycle I felt stronger in the deadlift than ever before.

The beforementioned experience is, of course, one of a novice, so it has to be taken as such. Maybe the carryover gets smaller as I progress. I have only recently started to play with "real adult weights", as Pavel T. so succinctly put it in one of his articles, in both lifts.

For what it's worth I've heard my squat called very wide and I deadlift conventional with a relatively narrow stance, I'd think average. As an interesting sidepoint that has piqued my interest lately there's a significant difference in the squat stance width between bodyweight squats and the loaded barbell low bar squat, when it comes to how I feel to be able to generate the most force. Maybe it's a question of depth.
 
My best carryover was from wide stance barbell back squats to conventional deadlifts.

For a novice, getting stronger is just getting stronger - lots of carryover from everything.

For me, because the PL squat was basically a hip hinge to greater depth than my DL took my hips, I got the carryover from the lift w the greater ROM to the lift with the lesser ROM.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
My best carryover was from wide stance barbell back squats to conventional deadlifts.

For a novice, getting stronger is just getting stronger - lots of carryover from everything.

For me, because the PL squat was basically a hip hinge to greater depth than my DL took my hips, I got the carryover from the lift w the greater ROM to the lift with the lesser ROM.

-S-
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Back when I saw the first video I had recorded of me doing back squats, I instantly called it deadlifting with a bar on my back. So no wonder there is carryover to each other.
 
Antti said:
Back when I saw the first video I had recorded of me doing back squats, I instantly called it deadlifting with a bar on my back. So no wonder there is carryover to each other.
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Yes. My own personal preference now is to do a kind of squat that _isn't_ so much like a deadlift, hence my preference for goblet or front squats with 1 or 2 kettlebells, or the front squat with a barbell.

The overhead squat, in some form, is something my current t-spine mobility doesn't allow but I remain hopeful that I can get there, and then add that to my list of favored squats, in the future.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
The overhead squat, in some form, is something my current t-spine mobility doesn't allow but I remain hopeful that I can get there, and then add that to my list of favored squats, in the future.
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Steve, I have been told by a medical professional that I have close to zero T-spine mobility, and my mobility in general sucks, but I can overhead squat. T-spine mobility helps but the key is to pinch your shoulder blades back. Not up - it's not a shrug - but back. This technique also got rid of the shoulder impingement I previously had with overhead squats.
 
@MikeTheBear, at one time, me and my poor t-spine mobility managed an OHS with 50% bw with my fingers touching the knurling, so almost straight up and down. Same basic idea, I think. My focus was on pulling the bar apart but it seemed to work.

All very interesting - my scapula positioning is both freeing up and getting stronger, and I don't know exactly how that is connected or not to my t-spine mobility, but whatever the case, I'm better than I was and happy about that.

The 1-bell OHS is the killer for me.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides Is there a reason why you wanted to hold the bar with a narrow grip? Admittedly all my overhead squats are done with a snatch grip. I bet if I narrowed my grip I wouldn't be able to do them.

Pulling the bar apart is a good cue.

I can't OHS with a single KB either.
 
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