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Kettlebell RotK

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JamesPTA

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with the excitement of Q&D being released, I felt it appropriate to make this post. One of my favorite things about Pavel’s literature is reading about the science, research, and practical applications of his programs.

Recently over the last 2 months, I have read ROTK 3 full times and I’ve come to the conclusion that, like ETK, it is a work of genius. I have not shown much interest in starting the program, but the progressions that has been laid out in the programs lends the idea that it can be a lifelong program.

You’ll definitely have to de load and take breaks from double KB work to do several weeks of like S&S, RSAS, or the upcoming Q&D.

I know it’s been posted in the past but has anyone recently gone through ROTK and met the standards? And if so, what are your thoughts?
 
I did it for a while when a lot of my training was with three other people - when the group stopped meeting, I stopped following ROTK so I didn't get terribly far in it.

I think it's demanding, and it's harder to follow than some other programs. In particular, the work with dissimilarly sized bells really requires attention when you're lifting.

-S-
 
Here is my old review:

My ROTK comments I found from other posts...

What programme are you currently doing (and why?)


I think that link above sums up my my thoughts pretty well.

So I ended up doing rotk from Jan and ended it in April or May (I'm traveling in Vancouver and don't have my notebook on me). I worked up to 36 and 32 kg bells. I tried playing with the 40 kg and 32kg bell somewhat, but it is just too heavy for me right now. I especially struggle with the double snatch. I can do it, but I am having to try too hard for a workout. FYI, these weights are for the GRIND block only. For the BALLISTIC block, I had to use much lighter weights. Mostly because of my endurance. 10 reps of LCCJ with a 32 and 28 (or 24) bell was close to my limit. I would run out of gas. So I am more advanced at the GRIND block.

Did I follow the program 100%? Not really. I never pushed "density" or time, as the program calls for. I took as much time as I wanted to recover in between sets. This, in my opinion, made the program a little bit more "park bench" then it is intended to be.

Results. I did gain a few lbs as I mentioned before. Also, I got stronger at pressing. But mainly I improved or maintained my general fitness level. I think the LCCJ volume improved my endurance. I did not conduct the 2 tests listed in the book, but I have an inkling of where I would stand.

After RoTK, I took 1 or 2 weeks off and I freestyled it (barbell plus kb) for a month or 2 and really focused on my nutrition and fat loss. I did very little exercising, I tried to do as little as possible. Then about 5 weeks ago I started a 20 week power lifting program. I am going to lift at a meet in November (for the first time).

I have owned RoTK book for years and I am glad to finally have tried the program. Do I recommend the program to others? Yes, if they are ready and can handle heavier bells above 24 kg. This program will make you strong!! Will I ever do this program again? Maybe... It is a fine program and works, but I think I can get the same benefits (or very close to it) with a simpler, more minimalistic, program, that is easier on my body. Something like ETK+.

There is something magical about double kettlebells. I will always work in a program of this at least once per year.
 
I'd be interested in hearing what non-kettlebell strength feats were possible after training the ROTK for a while to get a sense for what it can do.
 
Did ROTK before. met the press standard, still working on the clean and jerk standard
 
I'd be interested in hearing what non-kettlebell strength feats were possible after training the ROTK for a while to get a sense for what it can do.

I did ROTK but my main deviation was that I didn't push myself hard. I did not push Density/time and I did not push the weights too much. By doing this I attempted to make it more of a Park bench vs a Bus bench program. I was doing this as a healthy GPP program in between power lifting training sessions.

I believe I added some upper body muscle. And I'm somebody that probably carries a lot more upper body muscle than the average person. This impressed me.

It is a great program. It is not easy. There are likely easier paths, that is my only complaint. I've mentioned this many times over the years, on this forum, but I still think that a properly setup ETK+ doubles program is one of the most effective training plans for the general. I like ETK+ a lot more than RoTK. You can probably search under my name and find my old posts about ETK+.

Regards,

Eric
 
ETK+ is definitely intriguing. I found a .doc version a few weeks ago after I read ROTK. There seems to be a lot of variety of exercises and rolling the dice. ROTK appears to be more specialized.

I'm probably a while from attempting ROTK, but I would like to get more proficient with double KB drills before going for that kind of volume and weight.
 
I have the MILO article and will summarize here. ETK+ is definitely an Easy Strength approach to build on the core of RoP (C&P w/ pull-ups for strength, swings/snatches for conditioning).

It is basically this structure: Strength, Conditioning, rest, Strength, Conditioning.

You assign exercises to a 1-6 die. Strength day groups are press, squat, and pull exercise groups (so 1-6 exercises assigned to a die roll per group). Conditioning day is swing, cleans, snatches, push presses, jerks, long cycle, etc (pick six and assign them to a dice roll). Strength exercises should be 3-8RM variations, and 10-20RM for ballistics lifts. Mix single-arm and two-bell lifts.

On strength day, roll twice for two press variations, roll once for a squat variation, roll once for a pull variation. Roll two dice for time for each of the four blocks (press, squat, press, pull) - so up to 48 minutes, as little as 8 minutes (unlikely). Perform ladders, you can wave the ladders like RoP session to session if you want, or rotate which movement is "heavy" (higher-rung ladder) for the day and assign the others to medium or light (see Easy Reg Park). So it would look like this (using the HMML approach from Easy Reg Park):
  • (H) 24kg press x 1,2,3,4,5 for 8 minutes
  • (M) 2x24kg front squat x 1,2 for 6 minutes
  • (M) 16kg bottoms-up press x 1,2,3 for 4 minutes
  • (L) Bodyweight pull-ups x 1,2,3 for 10 minutes
  • Next time the squat exercise will be the heavy emphasis (light follows heavy, so first press session is light next time)
On conditioning day, roll once for a swing/snatch exercise, roll two die for time, perform sets of 5 or 10, occasional set of 20, for single-arm and 2,4,6 up to (2,4,6,8,10) ladders for double-bell exercises. Roll again for push press/jerk variation, roll two die for time, same set/rep scheme depending on single- or double-bell. Repeat it all once more (two rounds of swing/snatch "set" and push press/jerk "set") or roll again for other varieties. As little as 8 minutes (very low odds of rolling two 1's four times in a row), up to 48 minutes, average would be 28 minutes give or take a few minutes.

You could simplify by reducing the number of exercises (e.g. 3 exercises is 1-2, 3-4, or 5-6 roll) or have two exercises in mind and flip a coin to decide. With three in mind, you could flip a coin to eliminate one, then flip again to eliminate again, leaving a "winner" for the day. And/or assign various weights and reps/set range to a dice roll for a single exercise in that group if that's what you're focusing on. In that case, you might keep it to 4 x 10 minute sets on the grind day.
 
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For those who have done ROTK, how did you progress the press ladders? Did perform exactly like ROP or did you advance as your body let you?

The reason why I ask is because the book does not specify and, in fact, states that you can progress your ladders as you are able on heavy days If you have no doubt.
 
In ROTK Grind block, a double kbell snatch is first done prior to each set of the double presses. Therefore, your weight should be either based on how much you can double press OR how much you can double snatch. I assume that most people's double snatch is the limitation, not the pressing. If this is true for you, use a weight that you are capable of double snatching.

I never chased the "density" or the clock. I just slowly added a little bit more weight (i.e. bigger bells) as I got stronger. I took long rests in between sets and went as heavy as possible without losing form or without having to psyche myself up (or go into 2nd gear, if you know what I mean). For example, pressing a 40 and 36 was doable. Double snatching the 40 and 36 (per ROTK) was difficult for me. After a bunch of sets I noticed my form degrade and I wasnt able to power the bells up, I started dipping my body under the bells to catch them (cheating). When this happened, I knew I was going too heavy.

One may wonder why I was so adamant of following the program by doing the double snatches yet not follow the program and not focus on density (time, the clock)? I found value in the double snatch. I did not find value in making it a lactic anaerobic conditioning session. If I did, I would have had to use lighter bells. I chose Heavy and Long Rests over Lighter with Lactic Anaerobic.

Let's call it "Timeless ROTK"... :cool:

Regards,

Eric
 
Gonna have to re-read ETK+ as much as I wanna run back ROTK, having limited size bells and only one pair, I may have to come up with a different attack
 
Here is where ROTK never made sense to me. There was a time, not today, when I could press double 32's for 5 reps. My all time was 7, but that was a rare day. I think the same day, I did double 25's for 12. However, my double snatch max was the 25's and I never ever had any chance of doing the 32's. I never even tried it.

Wouldn't there be better programs like Escalated Density Training to build volume/strength/size with 32's vs. ROTK? I did like the jerk ladders, but ladders up to 10 with density, seemed like an injury waiting to happen.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying to follow the program to the letter of the law, the perfect demographic for the program is the 28 year old kettlebell ninja, who can do the USST in 10 minutes with about 220 snatches and can press the beast for reps. Not a guy in his 40's or 50's who can get close on the ROP numbers but not there, which Pavel even mentions.

I'm sure the program works and I did run it for a month before getting dinged up. For 99% of us, there are much better routes of getting where you need to be. Running jerks with Dry Fighting Weight would be a better idea.
 
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Here is where ROTK never made sense to me. There was a time, not today, where I could press double 32's for 5 reps. My all time was 7, but that was a rare day. I think the same day, I did double 25's for 12. However, my double snatch max was the 25's and I never ever had any chance of doing the 32's. I never even tried it.

Wouldn't there be better programs like Escalated Density Training to build volume/strength/size with 32's vs. ROTK? I did like the jerk ladders, but ladders up to 10 with density, seemed like an injury waiting to happen.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying to follow the program to the letter of the law, the perfect demographic for the program is the 28 year old kettlebell ninja, who can do the USST in 10 minutes with about 220 snatches and can press the beast for reps. Not a guy in his 40's or 50's who can get close on the ROP numbers but not there, which Pavel even mentions.

I'm sure the program works and I did run it for a month before getting dinged up. For 99% of us, there are much better routes of getting where you need to be. Running jerks with Dry Fighting Weight would be a better idea.

Yes to everything you said. I agree. I ran ROTK. Fine program. But it's very unlikely Ill ever do it again. ETK+ and Dry Fighting Weight are my 2 favorite doubles programs, by the way. Bus bench programs will get you to where you are going, but, like you said, you may get "dinged up". Figuring out a way to do it on the park bench is much more enjoyable. In the short term, 4-8 weeks, you may not progress as fast. But you will be much more consistent in the long term. Tortoise vs the hare.

If somebody wants to gain strength and muscle with kettlebells, its hard to beat double front squats, and double clean and presses.
 
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