Kettlebell Rucking

[offwidth]

Well off topic by now... but yes this is an unfortunate and increasingly common occurrence of people getting themselves into locations they have no business being, and situations they can't extricate themselves from when things go bad.
It takes years of building up the varied skills required to competently climb difficult mountains. And even then random and bad things happen to the most skilled and experienced climbers. (After almost 5 decades of some pretty serious climbing, I've seen a few things...)

 

[Steve Freides]

My name is Robert and happy for my name to be used if you like.

If you want me to change your username, please PM me with the exact spelling of the new name you want. It’s not a difficult thing for me to do, but first try a search on your desired new username to make sure it’s available.

-S-

 

[Kozushi]

Rucking fits into my theory that our human musculature while designed or able to be used for many things, is primarily designed for walking and running. Even our spine is S shaped to handle the bang bang bang of walking and running - it's a big spring. Adding a load on our back as we walk makes the walking more effective as a strength building exercise. While running is the violent form of walking, rucking is its heavy form. Both have their uses.

I was mystified many years ago before learning any exercise science how after walking around Korea with a backpack for 2 months in the summer and doing no other exercises I set a personal best in bench pressing. Rucking has lots of carry over effect to many things, and I think the same is true for running and walking.

 

[Bret S.]

Rucking has lots of carry over effect to many things, and I think the same is true for running and walking.

+1

 

[Kozushi]

+1

I'd like to have a face-off argument on these forums against/with the guys saying that walking isn't a strength-building or maintaining exercise. I weigh 218lbs, so when I walk for 75 minutes, I'm doing thousands of half lunges loading 218lbs on my legs each and every step. Throw a heavy backpack onto this or run and you just make the exercise even more valid!

 

[Bret S.]

I'd like to have a face-off argument on these forums against/with the guys saying that walking isn't a strength-building or maintaining exercise. I weigh 218lbs, so when I walk for 75 minutes, I'm doing thousands of half lunges loading 218lbs on my legs each and every step. Throw a heavy backpack onto this or run and you just make the exercise even more valid!

I don't like to argue with anyone and couldn't agree more on the effects of walking, for the last 2-3 mos I'm walking avg around 10 mi/wk and rowing for at least 2 hrs, this week I rowed for 6 hrs and feel bulletproof, my back low is loose enough to crack it first thing in the morning most days, something I haven't felt in many many years.

Between walking, rowing, heavy snatching and some other strength work doing Al Ciampa's Plan 111 I haven't felt this put together in years. I'll eventually add/sub some running and rucking, baby steps..

 

[North Coast Miller]

I'd like to have a face-off argument on these forums against/with the guys saying that walking isn't a strength-building or maintaining exercise. I weigh 218lbs, so when I walk for 75 minutes, I'm doing thousands of half lunges loading 218lbs on my legs each and every step. Throw a heavy backpack onto this or run and you just make the exercise even more valid!

It helps and is the first component of any rehab or fitness strategy if starting with 100% detrained person or someone that's been off their feet for any length of time.

But...talk to any mail carrier and you'll find in some cases it is actually beating them up rather than making them stronger, so the size of the dose once again. Most carriers don't seem overly fit in any event. I walk and stand all day at work and pretty sure it is only marginally better than sitting. With caveat that I'm not taking nice long strides and keeping a pace as I do when walking the dog, so two very different examples of the same movement.

The problem - walking is extremely efficient from a muscle use standpoint. I try to keep myself more upright and pull my leg back with hip extensors and glutes rather than use the controlled falling that is the normal gait. Have to consciously do this every time, but it definitely does make my glutes feel like they're working harder.

YMMV

 

[Bret S.]

The problem - walking is extremely efficient from a muscle use standpoint. I try to keep myself more upright and pull my leg back with hip extensors and glutes rather than use the controlled falling that is the normal gait. Have to consciously do this every time, but it definitely does make my glutes feel like they're working harder.

Working on gate and tempo is also what I'm doing, right now I'm consistently a bit over a 15min/mi pace. The arm and leg action coordinated into a solid pace feels great, I want to break the 4 mph barrier without feeling like I'm rushing, this I work on every time out..

 

[North Coast Miller]

Working on gate and tempo is also what I'm doing, right now I'm consistently a bit over a 15min/mi pace. The arm and leg action coordinated into a solid pace feels great, I want to break the 4 mph barrier without feeling like I'm rushing, this I work on every time out..

At that pace you are definitely getting way more benefit than from jogging.

 

[Al Ciampa]

At that pace you are definitely getting way more benefit than from jogging.

Can you expand on your thoughts? How are you defining “benefit”? For the same duration, frequency, etc?

Also, a question to you: do you work in a physical rehabilitation clinic? Or are otherwise involved in rehab?

 

[Kozushi]

I don't like to argue with anyone and couldn't agree more on the effects of walking, for the last 2-3 mos I'm walking avg around 10 mi/wk and rowing for at least 2 hrs, this week I rowed for 6 hrs and feel bulletproof, my back low is loose enough to crack it first thing in the morning most days, something I haven't felt in many many years.

Between walking, rowing, heavy snatching and some other strength work doing Al Ciampa's Plan 111 I haven't felt this put together in years. I'll eventually add/sub some running and rucking, baby steps..

I like arguing/debating because half the time I find out I'm wrong and need to change my thinking and the other half of the time I at least learn several things in the process.

 

[Kozushi]

Can you expand on your thoughts? How are you defining “benefit”? For the same duration, frequency, etc?

Also, a question to you: do you work in a physical rehabilitation clinic? Or are otherwise involved in rehab?

I can't imagine how walking could ever be better exercise than running unless one is not motivated or able to run. I'm not super motivated to run and so I settle for walking most of the time and it does the job well of keeping me overall strong and fit, with the weights and judo of course too!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Can you expand on your thoughts? How are you defining “benefit”? For the same duration, frequency, etc?

Also, a question to you: do you work in a physical rehabilitation clinic? Or are otherwise involved in rehab?

I'm taking that from studies I've read showing equal or better cardio response from power walking compared to jogging once you get above that 4.5 MPH range. Granted the difference is not great and overall will be about the same, but most comparisons go by total time or distance and don't compare an extremely slow jog to a very fast walk - is awkward to jog at a 15 minute mile. Walking puts a lot less wear and tear on the joints and still hits a good HR. Once you up the pace of the jog beyond what you can walk you'll be burning a lot more calories but also more prone to injury, inflammation etc. Even rucking with a light pack puts less repetitive stress on the joints.

My involvement with rehab is limited to my own experiences with a number of surgeries, seeing friends and relatives come back from injuries, in some cases with my advice (making perfectly clear I am NOT qualified to give more than very general advice and to defer to their PT if they have one!). My own experience with PT has not very positive unless a firm diagnosis had already been determined. My typical PT experience - GP makes a snap diagnosis and send one to rehab for a couple weeks before insurance will pay for an MRI or further diagnostics. In those instances its not really fair to say the PT stinks, but they are not very effective in that role.

Was also a member at a fitness club that was directly attached to a large physio practice, they shared the entire facility. So was able to daily observe how they went about rehabbing people from surgical injury and age related debilitation. Short answer - I'm no expert, but walking and light machine work were always the initial intervention.

 

[Al Ciampa]

Your points are well taken, especially this:

Walking puts a lot less wear and tear on the joints

However, we should compare apples to apples. Good running posture minimizes insult—and this is no small statement. Too many take this for granted. I’ve solved more than one knee/hip/ankle case through corrective “jogging”.

And w/r to CV improvement, jogging picks up where walking leaves off. This is just the physics of it.

Don’t get me wrong—I am a huge believer in walking, for both health and performance. But for the latter, you can better invest your time while still preventing injury.

 

[Al Ciampa]

I can't imagine how walking could ever be better exercise than running unless one is not motivated or able to run. I'm not super motivated to run and so I settle for walking most of the time and it does the job well of keeping me overall strong and fit, with the weights and judo of course too!

Great post.

 

[Matts]

very difficult to discuss walking, jogging, and running- because effects are all relative to the current condition of the doer. Also, as @Al Ciampa states, the form is critical to wear and tear on joints. I know lots of people who ran at pretty elite levels who have great joints at older ages- no issues at all. But these are people who had great form and knew what they were doing. For someone in great running shape, doing 6-8 mi @ 7:30 pace can be the same 'stress' that walking 3-4mi. a 16:00 min pace is for someone else. It's all relative. Studies rarely allow for all the relative variable, and most conducting them wouldn't know good form or bad form if it bit them on the butt, so I ignore them as a waste of my time. Nothing beats practical experience of someone sharp who has a good eye!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Your points are well taken, especially this:



However, we should compare apples to apples. Good running posture minimizes insult—and this is no small statement. Too many take this for granted. I’ve solved more than one knee/hip/ankle case through corrective “jogging”.

And w/r to CV improvement, jogging picks up where walking leaves off. This is just the physics of it.

Don’t get me wrong—I am a huge believer in walking, for both health and performance. But for the latter, you can better invest your time while still preventing injury.

I can't argue with any of this^. What passes for jogging form out there can be downright scary!

I need to take a closer look at rucking and see if there is a point where load at a given % of lean body mass might equal the benefits of jogging at, say a 10 minute mile.

Have nothing against jogging, but my old dog can't run like that any more and I don't have time for a separate easy run in my day. Tossing X lbs on my back for the 20 minute morning walk might turn it from an easy way to warm up my joints in the morning to something with more benefit.

 

[1mooreclimb]

As Matt’s /Al Ciampa mentioned - running form is really critical. Most elite runner have done so much volume that their Aerobic threshold is right up against their Anaerobic threshold - meaning they can run fast with little stress. Some interesting studies I read detailed most run huge volume at an easy and low aerobic level (for them), so it’s relative. Their bodies can only take the stress of aerobic threshold training a couple of times a week because their bodies have to work so hard to do it. I guess like the mailman also might get beaten up through sheer volume relative to him/her.

I agree both running and Rucking (with pack) makes you strong. If it does improve bench press does it also improve deadlift max or squat max?
When I run a 15km trail at 135bpm and hike that same trail it feels the same except for the stress and recovery. I can’t do Strength the next day because the fatigue from running is deeper.

I think that there is a trade of between strength training and volume - can’t effectively do both.....but and I leave this open...

If you are stronger than you were 4weeks ago then each rucking or running step taken is at a lower % of your previous level of effort required.

 

[fractal]

Have nothing against jogging, but my old dog can't run like that any more and I don't have time for a separate easy run in my day. Tossing X lbs on my back for the 20 minute morning walk might turn it from an easy way to warm up my joints in the morning to something with more benefit.

My dog is young and too excitable to run with. Especially on narrow sidewalks. She usually ends up trying to play whenever I break into a jog with her. For this reason I just wear a weighted vest to make it a bit more challenging. Hoping to transition to running in a few more months when she’s better on a leash.

 

[Ray Robinson]

This has been a really useful thread; thanks everybody for your comments! I do a lot of walking with my wife and dog (whose name is Abbey and is a very good girl) and this thread has inspired me to put on a backpack with weights when walking (I’m starting out with 9 kgs but might add more soon.) I also have about a mile walk from my metro stop to my office, so I’ve added a 2.2 kg weight to my work backpack as well.

I’m wondering if anybody had thoughts on how much weight to add when they are ready to increase the load. I know in S&S the recommendation is to do big jumps, but it might make more sense when rucking to add lower weights so one’s body can adapt because the workout times are ostensibly longer (you don’t want to be in the middle of a 4-mile walk when you’ve realized you got a little too ambitious.) I was thinking that 2.2 kg increments sounds right, but I’m curious if others have gone heavier.