Bodyweight Run Recovery

[Steve Rogers]

Hello,

I recently started running again and now that I am older (30s) I noticed some things that I’m very curious about:

1) I have a job where a lot of running is required. Is there a smarter way to run where I’m less prone to injury?

2) What is the best recovery after a run? Is it possible to reset the body to go again? This is from a mileage standpoint, can you unwind the clock?

3) Does cross training really help me not get injured? Is swimming more effective than weight training for this?

4) Are sprints or hiking with heavy weight helpful in keeping a good long distance running shape?
Also, are sprints putting the same impact on my body just in a compressed time or do they help with easing off normal wear and tear of my body?

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Just to reiterate- NOT running at all is NOT an option.

 

[Mawen]

My understanding is, that if u run with ur mouth closed you automatically run slow enough to turn the run in active recovery instead of having to recover from the run.
Correct me if I’m wrong pls. (Or add)

 

[offwidth]

Hello,

I recently started running again and now that I am older (30s) I noticed some things that I’m very curious about:

1) I have a job where a lot of running is required. Is there a smarter way to run where I’m less prone to injury?

2) What is the best recovery after a run? Is it possible to reset the body to go again? This is from a mileage standpoint, can you unwind the clock?

3) Does cross training really help me not get injured? Is swimming more effective than weight training for this?

4) Are sprints or hiking with heavy weight helpful in keeping a good long distance running shape?
Also, are sprints putting the same impact on my body just in a compressed time or do they help with easing off normal wear and tear of my body?

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Just to reiterate- NOT running at all is NOT an option.

Some questions...

You say you have a job that requires ”a lot of running”. Define a lot. And what type of running.

You say that you are prone to injury. What type of injuries have you been seeing?

Other than that and without knowing more...

Best recovery after a run depends on the type of run

’Cross-training’ can either help or hurt depending upon your type of running and type of cross training. (I know a bunch of triathletes that are disasters)

There have been a lot of threads about the topic of rucking translating to running (or vice versa)

Sprinting is good.... but there is an old adage as well... ‘speed kills’

It all comes back to... what type of running do you need to do?

 

[Steve Rogers]

I didn’t make that one clear, my apologies.
I’m actually not prone to injury. I’m just trying to stay that way

Type of running is either long distance slow running. Short distance fast running. Sprinting.

In terms of a lot: 5-6 days a week. 3-12 miles a day. Average about 15-40+ miles Monday-Saturday.

Cross training looking into swimming as an option. It’s low impact makes the most sense

Does that help?

 

[offwidth]

If you need to be fit for running then run. Personally I would not waste my time swimming. (Don’t get me wrong... swimming is great exercise and an almost necessary life skill)
If you are running 40+ miles a week then any extra ‘cardio’ provided by swimming is probably not needed.
What might be needed (to stay injury free) is: mobility exercises and strength training. I would focus on legs, hips. I would also focus on unilateral work. Such as SLDL, lunges, split squats. I would consider getting a coach to review and critique your running form.

I would also utilize an HRM to validate that your ‘slow running’ is at or just below your AeT. Many people run slowly, yet because of ADS are at heart rates well over their AeT and approaching their AnT.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Any specific mobility exercises you would recommend in particular?

Swimming was not so much for cardio as it was for strengthening my entire body and further injury-proofing it. So I would consider a Run day, then swim to recover that evening. Would you think that might be beneficial?

I'll look into getting a heart rate monitor. When I run I normally just use the talk test, or the breathing easily through my nose test to measure heart rate, but I never tested where it was actually at.

 

[offwidth]

Any specific mobility exercises you would recommend in particular?

Swimming was not so much for cardio as it was for strengthening my entire body and further injury-proofing it. So I would consider a Run day, then swim to recover that evening. Would you think that might be beneficial?

I'll look into getting a heart rate monitor. When I run I normally just use the talk test, or the breathing easily through my nose test to measure heart rate, but I never tested where it was actually at.

Mobility: Anything from Flexible Steel / Super Joints / Relax into Stretch or the stuff from OS Resets. I often times ‘mix and match’ to suit what my body needs on any given day. Typically runners suffer from tight hamstrings, hip, knee, and foot issues. (Obviously)
Things like: Tactical Frog, Cossack Squats, Shin Boxes, 90/90, Seated Twists, and front splits have kept me pretty decent in the lower body

Swimming: If you have the time then there is nothing wrong with going for a relaxing evening swim. The key here is relaxing. If however you you have the ‘work capacity of an android‘ then by all means have at it with some more aggressive swimming.

If you can do your long runs using ventilatory markers such as the talk test or nasal breathing then you are probably running at your AeT or lower, which is where we want to be for those Long Easy Distance efforts. If you are very well conditioned aerobically then you might find that you can run at a much higher heart rate breathing nasally. An HRM will help validate this for you and get you in the right zone.

Another good tactic for long term injury proofing is to run on a variety of surfaces and terrains. I favour trail running above all other forms for a variety of reasons, but it is good to vary your running as much as possible. If you don’t currently do this, then like anything else, please ease into it. Based on your work running circumstances (I’m assuming LEO/Mil/etc) then you most likely don’t have any choice or control over this...

I do swim on occasion and here is my swimming partner from yesterday...

 

[Steve Rogers]

Dang, he looks friendly!

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

I'm certainly no expert, and I don't cover anywhere close to the type of mileage that you are talking about... but, just from a biological standpoint, I don't particularly believe there are any magic bullets to make one recover faster from any particular activity. We all have some limited recovery capacity, and the only way recover faster is to not go as deep into your need to recover. That's what the heartrate-based running is all about, near as I can tell; HR seems to be a good indicator of how deep you are going into your recovery needs.

As far as injury-proofing... I wonder if that might fall into the same general conundrum. Additional activity is only injury proofing as long as it's not taking away from the primary activity. If your job demands 40 miles a week, but you have the running capacity for 60 miles a week, then you've got plenty of recovery left in the tank for additional injury proofing work. But, if you only have running capacity for 40 miles as it is, additional work might be injury-causing, not proofing.

Of course, there's different muscular systems you can work without taking away from running capacity. Seems to me that's one reason swinging kettlebells pairs nicely with running, not necessary a lot of overlap in demands. But, of course, swinging a kettlebell probably isn't going to do much in term of bulletproofing your knees or ankles.


@offwidth, just curious - I've seen some fluff articles in the past saying that running is one of those activities where mobility can be over-done - that serious runners want just a little stiffness in the hips or hamstrings, to provide bounce. You have any thoughts one way or the other on that?

 

[offwidth]

@offwidth, just curious - I've seen some fluff articles in the past saying that running is one of those activities where mobility can be over-done - that serious runners want just a little stiffness in the hips or hamstrings, to provide bounce. You have any thoughts one way or the other on that?

I would totally agree with this concept, although I would be at a loss to explain any science behind it; or point to any studies to support it. It’s obviously going to be highly individual...and each person is going to have the optimal ’mobility’. Most likely its going to be a bit of a ‘Goldilocks’ situation.

Swinging a KB might not contribute to bulletproofing, but SLDL certainly will

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

Swinging a KB might not contribute to bulletproofing, but SLDL certainly will

Oh, I agree... for me, though, I suspect it does end up dipping a little from the same recovery bucket as running. I've personally been working some SLDL to try to strengthen the shins & ankles; not quite orthogonal to running.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Steve Rogers,

I’m actually not prone to injury. I’m just trying to stay that way

If it's ain't broke, don't fix it. You've asked a lot of general questions but, in your position, I'd be looking for a good trainer. At that level of regular running, and as part of your job, you're going to be an experiment of one, IMO. You should get a good idea of what your strength and weaknesses are as a runner, and if there aren't any real weaknesses, then just keep doing what you're doing.

Additional activity is only injury proofing as long as it's not taking away from the primary activity.

Agreed - more isn't always better. There's a young man who runs regularly by our house, and if you asked me what else he ought to be doing, I'd tell you nothing - he looks like he could run without stopping forever, just beautiful, easy form, and why would anyone want to mess with that? I don't know what else besides running he might do, but whatever is it, I wouldn't suggest changing it since it's working so well.

I've read about brilliant marathoners who can't do a single pullup - far be it from me to provide a solution in search of a problem.

-S-

 

[Steve Rogers]

Thanks everyone. I have had this experiment done before.

At a certain point I noticed my body actually recovers faster the more I throw at it. For example: I started out working out once a week. Then moved to 5 days a week. Then moved to two-a days. And then peaked up to 3-a days 3x a week two a days 2x a week and maybe add a 6th day.

During that time I noticed as time went on my body would start recovering from once a week, to every day, to a few hours before the next workout.

I don’t have any scientific evidence or explanation for WHY. I just know it worked. During my peak or even my base each training session took about an hour to maybe 2 hours. I didn’t do much gym work. This was mostly running, pushups, abs, pull-ups, squats, tire flips, fireman carries etc. and then pool work, more calisthenics, or some type of obstacle course or a ruck run, or maybe running up a hill with a ruck etc, etc.

All was good until I jumped to 8 hour smoke sessions in a pool . Or I’m moving with 30lbs from 6AM to 12AM over rough terrain and doing that for two weeks . My biggest dip in the recovery bucket was moving with 100+ lbs of weight overhead over a few miles, or having to row in addition to that about 2,000m, or a 50+ ruck movement over 8 miles at a near jogging pace etc,etc. I kept this peak up for 7 months.

After that I realized I had to give myself time to recover and I don’t think I ever went back to that level of training again.

Now I’m looking at getting back into that world, only this time I’m nearly 10 years older and I want to do this right. Some of you may have seen my training log and I’m very humbly building back up with OS. Even though I’m not prone to injury I feel some of the miles my body has taken.

Usually the shock of turning the intensity volume all the way to 10 has shown me some cracks in my strong body, only those cracks can be what injures me. I’m not looking to hit 10 and have my body just fall apart.

 

[Brozneo]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned sleep yet - more sleep (like 8 hours per night plus) will mean more recovery and make you less injury prone because of this.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned sleep yet - more sleep (like 8 hours per night plus) will mean more recovery and make you less injury prone because of this.

Good point, I probably get too little. I had to sleep in the past couple days to catch back up.