"Running is the fastest way to get in shape"

Discussion in 'Bodyweight' started by Kozushi, May 23, 2019.

  1. justkel_

    justkel_ First Timer

    Running did me a lot of good over the years, mostly loved it for the “runner’s high” - but strength training consitently has definitely contributed more to my overall fitness than running has. Both have their benefits for sure.
     
  2. dobie

    dobie Double-Digit Post Count

    I feel better after cardio work compared to strength training. I bike on my Schwinn airdyne.
     
  3. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides StrongFirst Director of Community Engagement Staff Member Senior Instructor

    OK.

    -S-
     
  4. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Biking Carryover

    Biking is essentially performing a one leg Squat or Leg Press. It has more carryover to Strength Training.

    Concentric Contraction

    The Eccentric component in lifting produce more trauma. The more trauma created the longer the recovery time necessary, "Wound Healing".

    There isn't an Eccentric component to Biking. It is an Concentric Action, as is Rowing. Thus, it allows for faster recovery.

    Running

    1) It works for conditioning but there isn't much carryover to Strength Training Exercises.

    2) There is a huge Eccentric component to it. The impart force of running is 3 - 5 times your body weight. That means a 150 lb Runner will encounter 450 to 750 lb with each foot strike.

    Magnify that by a mile. It is enormous.

    3) Distance Running kills Lower Body Strength. Research shows Endurance
    Training is "Site Specific".

    That means the muscle you engage in Endurance Training decrease in Strength.

    Thus, running kills Lower Body Strength but minimally affects Upper Body Strength.

    Running Solution For Lifters

    For someone who to maintain their Lower Body Strength with Running, the solution is running bleachers. Running the bleachers essentially is the same as riding a bike.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  5. Coyote

    Coyote Double-Digit Post Count

    Define lower body "strength"? It takes a little strength to run 200 miles, and you wont accomplish that without running a little first.
    Yes, it may be a different type of strength then heavy squat strength, but the value of either is subjective.
     
  6. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    One thing I know is that it takes a lot of 'upper body' strength to run 200 miles... by upper body, I mean from the neck up...
     
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  7. Coyote

    Coyote Double-Digit Post Count

    Well, for me it's all about that. I have been fighting a running battle with my brain for 53 years. Unless that is right, nothing is accomplished.
    I may be wrong, and its probably because I am someone who runs, but I just bristle a little when I read someone say running makes you weak. Upper body strength, lower body strength, or mind strength. The "strongest" people I know run.
    But that may not fit anyone else's definition of strength.
     
  8. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Distance Running

    Distance Running decrease strength and muscle mass; specifically in the legs.

    That based on research and anecdotal data.

    With that said, any type of Endurance Training decreases strength.

    Research has also demonstrated that strength decrease is site specific to the muscle being trained.

    For Endurance Runner that means a decrease in leg strength while being able to maintain upper body strength.

    Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Training

    This method increase muscle mass at the expense of strength.

    Type of Runners

    Endurance runners don't possess much strength; definitely, no leg strength.

    Sprinters are fairly strong and powerful and posses great speed. That in part because the foundation of Power and Speed are built on Limit Strength; the ability to produce more force.

    Kenny Croxdale

     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  9. Coyote

    Coyote Double-Digit Post Count

    I will let you inform Special Forces type folks that they are not strong.

    We will have to agree, to disagree, I am afraid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  10. Tarzan

    Tarzan More than 500 posts

    I don't think Kenny was trying to imply that a SF soldier is not strong, those guys have to excel at anything without any previous specialized training. They need a good base of fitness (which running provides) and better overall strength than almost anyone. they train to be capable at anything that could come up.

    Compare that to a civilian who specializes in a few big compound lifts and the guy who specializes would probably outdo them in the few chosen lifts but if the civilian was asked to keep up with the SF soldier for a few days, they'd struggle to keep up.

    I've been a professional road and track cyclist at different stages of my cycling career and I've witnessed first hand what Kenny was trying articulate with his previous post. Endurance work will eat into your strength gains every time and I've seen the results on a dynamometer many times when riders have switched from road cycling (endurance) to track cycling or vice versa.

    Volume is a strength killer, when you train for endurance your physiology changes to adapt to endurance (V02 max, lactate tolerance etc) and if you train limit strength your physiology adapts to that. There is some middle ground but in general you get good at what you specialize in.
     
    Discipulus and offwidth like this.
  11. pet'

    pet' More than 5000 posts

  12. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Your disagreement is not with me. It's with Exercise Physiologist, research data and empirical data.

    Take it up with them. And this ends this discussion.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
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  13. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    Whenever these types of discussion ensue we always have to dance around semantics and definitions. Endurance and strength attributes both exist on a continuum(s). There is Halfthor Bjornson strength at one end, and Kilian Jornet endurance at the other end. And lots of folks in between, and nobody living at both ends. Most of us are pretty far from either end by any real and serious standard of definition...
     
  14. WhatWouldHulkDo

    WhatWouldHulkDo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    This. It is a rare genetic freak who can squat 700# and run a half marathon. Most of us will never come close - but will be able to be plenty strong and endurant for what we need to get done.
     
  15. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    @WhatWouldHulkDo

    Do you mean, "It is a rare genetic freak who can squat 700# and run a half marathon [in X min such as 90 min]"? I assume most healthy people could finish a half marathon, even an extreme strength athlete (even if they walked). Now their time may not be impressive. Conversely, I assume an extreme endurance athlete could perform a strength feat, like a deadlift (it just may not be an impressive number).
     
  16. Kaisersemmel

    Kaisersemmel Double-Digit Post Count

    Why is it controversial that SOF guys who have to do a lot of endurance and strength endurance training often have limited max strength? A couple years ago the US Navy published some data on what physical fitness scores correlated the most with success on the BUD/S course and not surprisingly strength didn't play a massive role. People with deadlift 1RM in the 1.5-2.3xBW range successfully completed the course and they recommend that you work up to roughly 1.75xBW. Given that they recommend a BW bench press in the 10-15 rep range and 90-99 push ups I assume these people aren't all that heavy to begin with. So pretty modest strength goals that most healthy adults working an office job could achieve with not a lot of effort (compared to the training SOF guys do) in a relatively short period of time.

    Here is a more in-depth article on this 3-year study: SPEEDS, REPS, AND DISTANCES THAT CORRELATE TO HELL WEEK SUCCESS
     
  17. WhatWouldHulkDo

    WhatWouldHulkDo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Right - it's all a question of where we set the bar. I hope we can all accept that endurance training interferes with your ability to realize your absolute maximum strength - and vice versa - but we can still get to a good place in both domains.
     
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  18. Aaronlifts99

    Aaronlifts99 Double-Digit Post Count

    Really cool article! The crazy thing to me is that once you get through training (dependent upon your group/team) the physical demands needed to do your job properly can be vastly different than the training you just completed. meaning most operators aren't set up for success physically when they graduate.
     
    Kaisersemmel likes this.

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