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Other/Mixed Running + (mostly) KB

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Hey there. I've been lurking here for awhile now and finally decided to sign up. I wanna get your thoughts on something and hopefully I'll have something useful to contribute down the line.

My focus is distance running and I've come to realize that a lack of overall fitness is what ends up compromising my form. For context, I'm a scrawny guy (always have been) and I've never really known strength. I intend to fix this. Lately I've been doing farmer's carries with KB swings and GTG push-ups. S&S appeals to me because of how minimalist it is but I'm wondering if I'd benefit sufficiently from something like this:

- KB deadlifts
- KB suitcase carries
- KB swings
- push-ups (GTG)

My goal is basically just to get strong in the functional sense. If you can make a case for S&S being more robust then I'd be happy to hear it. The biggest hurdle for me is the TGU. I've got a 16kg bell and right now it's likely I'd have to buy an 8 just to do more than a partial rep (like I said, I am not a strong dude). I also don't mind this routine taking slightly longer.

The last thing I'm not sure about is how to prioritize strength training on days where I'm also running. Is it better to get it done in the morning if I'm gonna go in the afternoon? How many hours should I wait?
 
@Barefoot Matt
Also… welcome…

Don’t get all caught up in how much weight you are using (or can use) in the TGU. Form first; then the weight will follow.

If you have the means then I would highly recommend working with an SFG or taking the SF Kettlebell course. That way you will get your form dialed in from the get-go and won‘t be building bad habits. You might be surprised how good technique will lead to a quicker path to handling heavier weights.

Your lifting plan is fine, but S&S has less moving parts, and is a great compliment to running. As to how to balance running S&S and running… that will depend a lot upon your individual situation. (including what your real priorities are)
Err on the side of caution if you want. S&S and running on alternate days, until you get a feel for how it’s going.
For several years I did S&S 6 days per week and ran 4+ days. This worked great. Mostly I also ran in the early AM and did S&S immediately after. But I also at times did S&S in the early AM and ran in the PM. It all worked.

You say distance running. That means different things to different folks. 5k, 10k, 1/2 marathons, full marathons, ultras?

Again… welcome
 
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As also a pretty scrawny guy, I can attest to the transformational power of S+S in terms of strength and physique, and the transferability of those benefits to things like biking, hiking, and running. I gained 15 pounds of muscle doing S+S for about 7-8 months (168 to 184). I could keep up with avid hikers and bikers from S+S conditioning alone.

The TGU can be intimidating at first. I remember my first 16 kg TGU seeming impossible and slightly terrifying. I followed the S+S book’s instructions, and worked up to being able to do the TGU with the 32kg. Unless you have some undisclosed injury, there are progressions outlined in the book and by experts here that’ll allow you to do the same. Start with the book and a shoe and get your form dialed in.

My vote is for you to follow S+S as outlined by the book and supported by the advice of experts here until you reach the Simple goal. You can program it with running. Do a forum search to better understand how to program the two together. Plenty of threads on this.

Good luck!
 
Also, as off-width mentioned, the StrongFirst kettlebell day course or 1-on-1 instruction with a StrongFirst instructor would be highly worth the money invested to start this journey. If funds are low, I’ve found that the book is adequate along with instruction on the forum here and StrongFirst articles.
 
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Also… welcome…
Thank you.
If you have the means then I would highly recommend working with an SFG or talking the SF Kettlebell course. That way you will get your form dialed in from the get-go and won‘t be building bad habits. You might be surprised how good technique will lead to a quicker path to handling heavier weights.
I live in a fairly remote area so that's not feasible at the moment but I'll visit my local gym later this week and see if they can help me out. Even if it's just to practice the non-S&S movements I think that's a good shout.
You say distance running. That means different things to different folks. 5k, 10k, 1/2 marathons, full marathons, ultras?
To clarify: half-marathons and beyond. No ultras (yet) but one day for sure. Out of curiosity, were you running before S&S and if so, do you remember anything being notably different after awhile?
My vote is for you to follow S+S as outlined by the book and supported by the advice of experts here until you reach the Simple goal. You can program it with running. Do a forum search to better understand how to program the two together. Plenty of threads on this.
I've actually gone through one or two already and having done just the swings I can already see some of the appeal. I remember Pavel replying to someone about it so I'll check through to find out about the planning.
The TGU can be intimidating at first. I remember my first 16 kg TGU seeming impossible and slightly terrifying.
Also, if I may ask, when you got the form down were you able to do a TGU or did you still have to build up to it? If you couldn't, how did you do it?
Good luck!
Thank you.
 
Out of curiosity, were you running before S&S and if so, do you remember anything being notably different after awhile?
Yeah… I probably should have mentioned that I had been running for about 40yrs prior to S&S. Including trail and adventure running.
And I do a lot of other stuff as well. S&S really was (is) just filling in some blank spots on the map…
 
Thank you.

I live in a fairly remote area so that's not feasible at the moment but I'll visit my local gym later this week and see if they can help me out. Even if it's just to practice the non-S&S movements I think that's a good shout.

To clarify: half-marathons and beyond. No ultras (yet) but one day for sure. Out of curiosity, were you running before S&S and if so, do you remember anything being notably different after awhile?

I've actually gone through one or two already and having done just the swings I can already see some of the appeal. I remember Pavel replying to someone about it so I'll check through to find out about the planning.

Also, if I may ask, when you got the form down were you able to do a TGU or did you still have to build up to it? If you couldn't, how did you do it?

Thank you.
If I remember correctly, I started practicing form with a shoe. And then after my form was dialed in I started with the first couple of steps of TGU with the 16kg (from roll to press) and back. I progressively added steps while practicing form until I could do the whole thing. For example, I then added to sitting and back, and then to lung etc. until I could stand. I transitioned relatively quickly with the 16 kg, but I had to transition to the 32kg much slower using the same slow, step-wise progression.
 
I liked alternating days of S&S and easy running. Sometimes I like to squish the two into the same session if the run isn't too long, but I wouldn't recommend that out the gate. Get the book (S&S), study it, get whatever KB you need, and just do that. Post form videos on the forum asking for help and people will get you squared away.

Especially at this stage (beginning), just follow S&S. Don't get distracted. A year of S&S sets a huge foundation to explore from.
 
I will echo the others and vote for S&S. There will always be times of uncertainty with any program (when to move up in weight, how to deal with injuries, sickness, etc.) and having a clear program with less moving parts is very helpful there.

Read the book very carefully and use a long prep phase, just learning the movements. Depending on your running plan you could alternate S&S + running, or split S&S in half (swings one day, TGU next day) + easy runs on both days).

I have started with a 12 kg for both exercises (my arm was shaking in the starting position of a TGU with a 16 kg...) and have moved up to 32 kg. Took me 2 years or so and patience, but it was definitely worth it.

You could also try the swing and TGU plan form StrongFirst Kettlebells on BJJ Fanatics. It is very similar to S&S, but has a different format that will give you a bit less hypertrophy, but probably leave more recovery abilities for running. The product has great instructional videos on Swings and TGUs (and Clean and Jerk for that matter).

There are often coupons available, bringing the product down to 50 USD or even below 30 USD.
 
Just to reinforce what everyone else has said. S&S will be great addition to your programming.

A lot of endurance enthusiasts make the mistake of making their strength training light weight with lots of reps. A lot of bodyweight stuff.

This is a huge mistake. The purpose of strength training to to train strength. We want to get as strong as we can until the pursuit of additional strength takes away from our SSP (sports specific practice).

The will make you more resilient to injury and able to apply more force in your SSP. In your case running.

You will notice the benefits in your running after 6 months. You'll he pleased with your results providing you are adherent.
 
Thank you all for the insight. You've given me a lot to think about.
 
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