Running shoes

Discussion in 'Other' started by njrick1, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Following @Harald Motz 's excellent overview.....an added benefit of barefoot running - be it actual or minimal drops/flat/no support - is taking it slowly.
    Easy, relaxed running - however you seek to frame it - is efficient physiologically and biomechanically with the zen qualities attached.

    Took me about 3 years. I am a lot lighter, 170 ish.
    Sure you'll have no problems. I went about it arse about face and made many mistakes along the way.
    You are already a relaxed runner. Took me a while to discover that is the key to it all.
     
  2. njrick1

    njrick1 Double-Digit Post Count

    Thanks! I need to try these to find out which is the widest.
     
    Bret S. likes this.
  3. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    absolutely. It is very enjoyable to run slow, unburdoned without restriction and pressure.

    The less padding there is on your feet the more they 'autoregulate' the stride. They come automatically to mid-forefoot strike.
    Interesting is slow jogging when aiming for an high stride rate: it has its similarities to sprinting. Then it is engaging and relaxing at the same time.
    Usually when fatigue sets in, the cadence drops. Less strides are also associated with higher impact.

    The impact of G when running must not be a bad thing: when one builds up over time the bones, tendons, cartilage adapt.
    It can make good things to the skelleton, bone density.

    Gentle jogging with good stride makes the feet-achilles-calf complex work as they were designed for: dynamic shock absorption followed by force production. A soft plyometric action with each step over and over again.

    Slow running really can tidy up some 'myths' about running.

    Also I am fairly convinced that you most probably can't get the whole endurance picture without doing steady state low intensity running, cycling, skiing ... classic endurance work.

    Usually any intervall work be it with kettlebell, barbell, bodyweight engage the fast(er) fibers.

    It can and is a good idea to train the slow endurance fibers. They need some longer steady state low intensity. 'The Uphill Athlete' is a great ressource for that.
    Aerobic functioning is humming in the background silently...
     
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  4. vegpedlr

    vegpedlr More than 500 posts

    The Uphill Athlete gives the best explanation I’ve seen of why MAF training is so valuable, and why trying to short cut with intensity just doesn’t work as advertised.
     
    Peter Yeates and Tim Randolph like this.
  5. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Sounds interesting! Is it also suited for runners?
     
  6. vegpedlr

    vegpedlr More than 500 posts

    It is directed towards mountain running and ski mountaineering. So I have to translate somewhat for marathon MTB.
     
  7. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    The explanation of and guidance for training aerobics function is by far the best I have ever read. They are very much the successors of Maffetone but there is a ton more detail, science and practical guidance. If you are interested in this kind of thing, I would highly recommend the book. The mountain sport stuff is fun, but this is really a book about how to be a very high capacity aerobic athlete.
     
    vegpedlr, Ulven and Bauer like this.
  8. Karl

    Karl Double-Digit Post Count

    Coming from a fellow flipper foot, the altra's have fit the best. Brooks also had a US 5E width that was ok, they still were not wide enough. I was never happy running in new balance, but they were ok width wise.
     
    Bret S. likes this.
  9. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    I have wide feet and find the Merrell Vapor Gloves have a nice wide, flexible toe box.
     
  10. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    absolutely. It is for the keyboard warriors and for the practitioners: for the hobbyist and pro. It provides input how to train for health or for performance. The performers are probably the main audience.
    The articles on the 'uphill athlete' website give already as it is often the case a very good grasp of what is in the book. The book is a great reference to study thoroughly, also to read some articles here and there and over and over again. In that regard a bit like Pavel's books.
    It is a destilation of some science and more so from years and decades of experience of stuff that worked.
    But if I remember correctly no word about the ATP/CrP alactic system.

    Q&D makes a fantastic job of explaining anaerobics: alactic and glycolytic. With great guidance and templates for practical application which was tested years in the field.

    The link of both worlds is A+A: alactic and aerobic. That is what we are doing practically with basic means at 'bewellandstrong': 'boring' base work.

    A + A Training – Be Well and Strong
     
  11. njrick1

    njrick1 Double-Digit Post Count

    Yes, great shoe! Ideally I'd find a normal old school like some sambas or Chuck Taylor's with more width so I can pay less and wear a better looking shoe (objectively). If not the price and look appear to be worth it for a shoe marketed as minimalist.
     
    Bret S. likes this.
  12. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    I have been thinking along the same lines and that made me go back to the article where Pavel first started sharing this kind of knowledge:

    What is "Work Capacity"? [Part I] | StrongFirst

    I did the Maffetone method based on this and found it worked but that the method was lacking in many respects. “Uphill Athlete” closed all those gaps and is a great companion to A+A.
     
    Bret S. likes this.
  13. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    Deleted. Double post.
     
  14. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    They really are the best in the business with respect to this stuff.
    If you look at the athletic CV's of the authors you will know why. They are the real deal...
     
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  15. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    The Glove 3 is my favorite, newer ones not so much.. I get them used off eBay, soak in hot soapy water etc. I know people don't like the idea of 'used' shoes but honestly, the ones I buy are barely worn.
     
    ShawnM and Tim Randolph like this.
  16. seward

    seward Triple-Digit Post Count

    I've been really happy with altras for the last few years. The one shoe job I hadn't been using them for was a cleat to play ultimate frisbee in. This year I gave the Altra King MT a try, and they've been great. Same grip as my old cleats, no squished feet or bruised toenails, and much easier on the joints.
     
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  17. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    There are a bunch of minimalist shoes in amazon that are more reasonably priced than the top brands. They have more than 4 stars with hundreds of votes, so I guess they cant be too awful. For instance:

    Within

    Voovix

    Saguaro

    I never understood why something that is soposed to be minimalist has to cost 100 dollars.

    Anyone got experience with any of these?
     
    Bret S. likes this.
  18. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    Tim, you did the Maffetone method applied to endurance work? Running? and if so where did you have your issues.

    I personally found when I resumed running and began rowing a bit over 3 years ago that my MAF then 140bpm without adjustments was way to high to be used on a regular basis. Breathing was ok, but somhow the overall effort was to high. Could also be that my stride cadence was a bit to low. It turned out quickly for me to be in a 120 - 130 range is is perfect on a very regular basis. Usually I rowed in 120bpm range and jogged a little higher around 130bpm.

    In the last year I went even lower and got used to jog sub 120bpm which is a task in and off itself. Overall I find the 'slow jogging' method very accessible and to the point on what to focus on while running.

    absolutely.

    The whole picture of A+A is the alactics and the aerobics: snatch & run.
     
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  19. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    It's been mentioned before the best value for money flat soled no support trainer/shoe is feiuye.
    So cheap they must be crap cheap. They're not.
    Can't vouch for others. Compared to full price vivos, at sometimes 10 x the price, vivos are not 10 x better. They're not 3 mm soles and maybe over distance may chaff or rub. I've ran 10 k in them. Had vivos at the time and ran more in them because I had them more than any other compelling reason but vivos do give more of a barefoot feeling, for sure. For money, no contest.
     
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  20. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    Personally I don't trust reviews, 80% hogwash I'd say, especially amazon. They used to be really good, in the last 4-5 years they've really become too big and quality is out the window.

    If the shoes are cheap enough you could try them out I suppose, but the average I pay for top quality shoes is 50.00 shipped through eBay.

    Amazon 'you're fired'! haha
     
    Oscar likes this.

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