Running shoes

Discussion in 'Other' started by njrick1, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. Bret S.

    Bret S. Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    I have a pair of these, not bad but the padding feels too thick for me personally, for the price though it's a great all around beater shoe and I have run in them.
  2. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    I was using Maffetone in support of running at half-marathon distances. My complaints are not with his core insight. Aerobic Deficiency Syndrome really is a thing and the only answer is putting in time below the Aerobic Threshold (AeT - which he approximates with the MAF number).

    The problems I had with his method is that there really is no method in The Big Book of Endurance. MAF is a really crude measure that has almost no room for variability between individuals or even conditioning and it is way to monotonic with age. While your MAF might have been too high, mine was clearly too low, but I didn't have any guidance on how to determine the right level. Uphill Athlete is clear that MAF runs too low for a lot of athletes. That is fine in that it is conservative, but not optimal. Worse, the book really doesn't have much guidance on time needed or training plans. I imagine if I was an overtrained triathlete more of it would have applied, but it just wasn't meant for someone looking to incorporate running into an overall fitness program. I ended up using 80/20 Running by Matt Fittgerald and had good luck with it. The idea of spending a lot of time sub-AeT is not unique to Maffetone.

    But the best teacher is experience. Now I have a really good feel for what how much to train and how training at 118, 128, or 138 bpm does for me. All are good, but they build my aerobic system in different ways. Uphill Athlete clarified a lot for me and matched my experience, but it's a big book. Al's article on training for the Air Force PT test is more than enough to get anyone started in the right direction.

    The combo is amazing. I am rucking, running, doing Q&D and some mobility work. The whole package is doing wonders for me and gives me a lot more than it takes.
  3. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    thanks Tim.
    absolutely. Experience is not to beat. To gain experience, running in this case, one has to run. And to build up that aerobic base one has to put the miles in. to put the miles in the running has to be minimal impact on the joints and tendons, relaxed to stay injury and pain free.

    Exactly it's the combo. They keep each other in balance. I always see nice improvement on the Alactics recovery wise when I do the right amount if Aerobics. Where the Alactics thechr goes up and down, the steady state Aerobics the hr stays nice and flat. I think there is something really good to the heart with these different work schedules.

    Back to the topic: I am still running in my flat sole old-school for indoor soccer/football designed adidas Samba, for years. Highly recommended for my feet.
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  4. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Thanks for the link. What a brilliant article!

    If you don't mind I have 2 questions on it for you or even @Al Ciampa himself:
    1. Where does rucking come in? Replacing one or two of the eady runs?
    2. Would you actually recommend doing 2-4x S&S type training + 2x DLs and 3x Overhead BB Press + GTG pushups + 4x easy running in the same training cycle?
    Or either KB or BB + GTG + endurance work?

    A+A snatching + easy runs is probably the most streamlined version of it, as @Harald Motz says.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  5. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    Without a doubt!

    @Bauer ... what are your current training objectives / goals / reasons for training?
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  6. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    personally I do that rarely and have no experience with that. As what I got from reading threads is that rucking prepares you not for running. The other way it is probably the same. For me running is my first choice because I have nothing to carry it is in a sense more 'free' to me.

    This is kind of like I am training on a regular basis. Since about 4 months now I re-entered zercher squats, I do them almost daily 'easy strength'

    I've build a rack, and for 6/7 weeks now one bar is always set up for the zercher, another for the bb press.

    Almost daily I do around 10 +- total zerchersquats and 10-30 presses. Varying load and/or rep schemes a bit. Sometimes a few standing abwheel rollouts 5-10 total. This is my strength routine I want to stick some months. A session is about 7-20 minutes. Directly before the strength session I lately do (6rx4)x 1-3 series of jumps and (5rx4)x 1-3 series plyopushups.

    Almost daily I do endurance rowing and or running, sometimes more rowing sometimes more running 30-90min at 115-130bpm mostly. Often I go on the rower or run a bit after the strength session.

    2-3 alactic snatch sessions 20-40 repeats.

    This is my general preparation of power, strength, endurance. The different parts ebb and flow into each other.

    To alternate A+A sessions with endurance work is a time tested fool-proof highly effective and sustainable method: snatch powerfully with decent form as much as your hands like, when they don't like to snatch, go locomote.
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  7. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    Rucking for me is in my Sunday long run slot. I go out for 2-3 hours every weekend. I have progressed in both weight and distance. I started in early summer with 6 miles and 20 pounds and tomorrow I will do 10 miles and 40 pounds. Occasionally I mix it up with more weight and less distance or vice-versa, but mostly it's been a steady progression. Rucking has been great for me. I really needed to develop my chassis, and having that much time every week under load has done more for my posture and stability than anything else I have ever done. On top of this, I will do another 2-3 sessions of sub-aerobic-threshold cardio. Some running, some uphill walking on treadmills. These last 30-60 minutes, but are not at all taxing. All-in-all, I am putting in around 5 hours a week for aerobic fitness, which feels like the sweet-spot for me.

    I am really not qualified to answer your second question. In my experience, if you do the aerobics right, they will take time, but really won't cut into your strength training capacity. A big ruck is a different story and I think of it as both a strength and aerobics session.

    Have fun with it. We are living in a golden age of great information and ability to experiment with what works for you.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  8. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    And to tie Rucking back to the thread topic: I ruck in the same minimalist shoes that I run in. Usually Merrill vapor gloves or Altras. Having the extra load without the structure of boots or conventional running shoes has definitely made my feet stronger.
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  9. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Right now I have my hands full with three kids, a full time job as a researcher and writing a PhD thesis more or less on the side. Disrupted sleep, being too lightweight and having not too much free time are my biggest constraints foe training right now.

    That being said I focus on GPP with S&S and my plan is to complete Timeless Simple in Q4 2020. However, I walk a lot during my normal days and do most grocery shopping that way. Plus I often carry my 10kg weighing toddler around, from 30 minutes to up to 5 hours per day, so I get quite a bit of easy rucking in. I have build quite a good aerobic base that way during the past 12 months.

    And this is where this thread comes in: in the future I would like to maintain this aerobic base once my toddler prefers to walk on her own more and more. At that time I will hopefully have build a good GPP with S&S 2.0.

    Thank you so much @Harald Motz for sharing your overall programming outline. This looks a lot like what I aspire to do in, say, 3-5 years.

    @Tim Randolph I really like running for aerobic fitness, but I guess rucking is more social compatible for me and also more "functional" for my life.
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  10. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    Is that all...? :)
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  11. Tim Randolph

    Tim Randolph Double-Digit Post Count

    You have your hands full so really shouldn’t try to maximize training. If I was in your spot (and I have been in similar spots), I would do S&S 4 or 5 times a week and try to walk a lot. For extra credit, you can strap the kid on a carrier and call it rucking :)
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  12. Al Ciampa

    Al Ciampa Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    1. Depends upon what your needs are.
    2. Yes.

    Reading your later post—when she prefers to walk, replace your daughter with an appropriate load.
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  13. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Haha, thanks. Yes, that is actually my plan.
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