Ryan's Food Log

Discussion in 'Strong Food Logs' started by Ryan T, May 2, 2018.

  1. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Jacked Up Adrenaline

    Intermittent Fasting elevates your adrenaline (nor-epinephine and epinephrine).

    That what produces the increase in energy and mental clarity.

    Protein: 30 Gram Per Meal

    The minimal amount of protein per meal should be around 30 gram of quality protein. This ensure that you are obtaining the minimal amount of Leucine (2.5 grams) to turn on mTOR.

    Growth Hormone

    It assist in preserving and increasing muscle mass to a degree. However, the amount of HGH produced with Fasting and method of training, such as High Intensity Interval Training is questionable.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
  2. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Huge Fan

    I am a big proponent of Intermittent Fasting.

    1) It has a multitude of heath benefits.

    2) It is a simple diet for weight/fat loss.

    Nothing to count or prepare. Just skip a meal every once in a while.

    3) It promotes "Metabolic Flexibility".

    The body learns to switch between glucose (carbohydrates) and ketones (body fat) dependent on the activity.

    The body is somewhat like a Hybrid Car; able to use electricity or gas, depend on the chore.

    Inflexibility

    1) High Carbohydrate Diets: Individual on high carbohydrate diets utilize glucose. Even though they have plenty of body fat, they are inefficient at accessing body fat for energy.

    2) Ketogenic Diets: Individual on a high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate diet utilize/burn body fat efficiently. They are inefficient at accessing glucose for energy.

    Due to a health condition, I am on the Ketogenic Diet.

    I like the diet but do not advocate it. That because it is very restrictive and hard to maintain. Very few individual stay on the Ketogenic Diet for that reason.

    However, I often perform Intermittent Fast while on my Ketogenic Diet.

    High Protein/Low Fat

    I am not a fan of decreasing calories by decreasing fat intake.

    There are a lot of nutrients in fats; the majority of nutrients is in the egg yoke. Also, fats (especially Saturated Fat) is necessary for hormonal production.

    I am a proponent of decreasing calories by moderately limiting carbohydrates.

    From my perspective, Intermittent Fasting is the easiest method of decreasing caloric intake. It allows you to consume pretty much what you want during your eating periods.

    However, if you don't like Intermittent Fasting there are other diet options.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
    Marc likes this.
  3. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    Thanks Kenny, I may give IF a try, or at least the meal skipping thing and not call it IF :) After I finish my current program I'm going to diet down 5-10 lbs and I'll keep it in mind.

    I agree with you on fats and I try to get healthy fats like avocado and olive oil. Having dieted in the past with low-carb approaches (usually moderately sucessfully), I'm better at avoiding carbohydrates than I am at avoiding fats. The main thing I've noticed with currently trying to get plenty of protein is that it's very easy to overshoot calories if I eat fatty meats or eggs with all the yolks or full-fat dairy. So, I have to embrace some of the low-fat options to get a balance.
     
    Marc likes this.
  4. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    I don't try to go low fat at all. Also I have been looking into Macadamia nut oil. Check this out:
    Benefits of Macadamia Nut Oil
     
  5. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    I'm the same way. If I'm making three eggs, the first one has a yoke, the dog gets the yokes from the rest. The only extra butter is on my toast in the morning.

    Protein is always the issue esp without supplementation - all too easy to get enough fats and carbs.

    I find if my carbs are under control I get much faster bodyfat loss by cutting dietary fat opposed to carbs - results in days instead of weeks. Is the opposite of scrounging up extra protein - I am always looking for added fats that can be eliminated without making my meals unpalatable, and I'm still in no danger of shorting myself by any means.

    I can get weight loss by cutting carbs but then I don't feel as zippy when I train and it feels like I lose across the board, not just fat.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
    ShawnM likes this.
  6. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    Hahaha... I do that, too. My dog loves it.
     
  7. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    5/11/2018

    2:45PM Broke fast with 12 oz bone broth and 2 tbsp apple cider vinegar (15 grams protein)

    3:15 PM 1 cup Greek yogurt (20 g protein)

    4:30 PM 3 oz beef jerky (30 g protein)

    5:30 PM 2 small taquitos (12 grams protein)

    6:30 PM 2 beers and cheesy fries with ground beef. Went out to meet friends. Hard not to participate. Not sure about the protein but I'll guess around 20 grams.

    So probably somewhere around 90 grams for the day.

    Tomorrow should be better. Hopefully the carbs will help me sleep.
     
  8. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Intermittent Fasting

    I understand many people being resistant to Fasting. It initially didn't make sense to me. I researched it for months before trying it.

    The first time I tried it, I did an 24 hour fast with no problem. However, I took a small cooler of food to work, just in case.

    The longest fast I did was 36 hours with no problem.

    Initial Intermittent Fasting Issue

    The individuals who initially have an issue with Intermittent Fasting are those consuming a High Carbohydrate Diet; they are glucose dependent.

    That means they need to eat frequently or their blood sugar drops and they don't feel good.

    Metaphorically speaking, for these individuals glucose is somewhat like a drug. When deprived of it, they go into withdrawal.

    The Solution

    Dr Mike T. Nelson is one of the leading researchers on Intermittent Fasting.

    For individuals who are glucose dependent and have a hard time with Intermittent Fasting, Nelson recommends easing into it.

    Let's say that you consume your last meal at 6 pm and breakfast at 6 am.

    Instead of having breakfast at 6 am, extend it, wait until 8 am or 10 am before consuming something.

    Think of Intermittent Fasting as "Progressive Resistance Training". Just as you'd slowly increase your load/ bar resistance each week; slowly increase the length of your fast each week.

    Brad Pilon, another leading research on this, is a proponent of the 24 hour fast.

    Pilon states that a fast over 12 hours means you are successful. Pilon goes on to say that if after let's say 14 hours you are hungry and need something to eat, EAT. You have already accomplished the main goal of fasting for 12 hours.

    Healthy Fats

    Monounsaturated Fats (avocado and Olive Oil) have some great healthy benefits.

    However, Saturated Fat is also healthy. The "Cholesterol Hypothesis" Ancel Key's promoted in the 1960's and is a myth. There is no reputable research that supports this.

    Saturated Fat

    Research has demonstrated that in increase in Saturated Fat actually increases HDL, good cholesterol.

    It also increases LDL. LDL has been mislabeled as bad, which it may or may not be.

    The determinate factor is the Particle Size Percentages of LDL.

    A high percentage of Particle A is good. A high number of Particle B is bad.

    Saturated Fat increases LDL. However, the increase is in Particle A, the good. Thus, in this case, an increase in LDL is a good thing.

    Personal Note

    On the Ketogenic Diet, I consume between 210 to 270 gram of fat. Approximately, 40% is Saturated Fat, 40% Monounsaturated and around 20% Polyunsaturated.

    My lipid profile was good before going on the Ketogenic Diet. It is now great.

    Decreasing Fat Intake

    It is hard to comment on this without more specific information.

    To reiterate, I am a proponent of decreasing carbohydrate intake before fat.

    The majority of individual, athletes as well, needing to consume a high carbohydrate diet is built on misinformation. That especially true with resistance training (Phosphagen Energy System) and Endurance (Oxidative Energy System)

    Sports that are moderately intensive and moderately long as well as high volume training may need to consume a high carbohydrate diet. Thus, the sports/activity criteria determines the amount of carbohydrates needed.

    However, some research indicates other wise

    Cross Fit Keto Diet

    Recent research by Rachael Gregory (board-certified Nutrition Specialist, Athletic Trainer and Strength and Conditioning Coach) demonstrated that when Cross Fit athletes were "Keto Adapted", they performed just as well as individual on a high carbohydrate diet.

    The added benefit was that the Keto Diet Cross Fit group decrease body fat while maintaining muscle mass.

    The Upside Down Keto Diet

    The Ketogenic Diet turns everything upside down; the Food Pyramid is turned upside down. Fat are on top and carbohydrate are on the bottom.

    Also, protein requirements drop below what is recommended for those on a high carbohydrate diet.

    1) Ketones (fractured fats) are utilized first, preserving muscle mass. The same occurs with Intermittent Fasting.

    2) Leucine (the anabolic amino acid) levels in the body increase. That because ketones preserve and protect Leucine rather that utilizing it for fuel, which occurs on a high carbohydrate diet. That occurs with Intermittent Fasting.

    Lowering Calories

    Dropping weight/decreasing body fat is all about lowering calories.

    However, the percentage of Fat/Protein/Carbohydrate Ratios-Percentage can be maintained with Intermittent Fasting.

    Intermittent Fasting Benefits Summary

    1) Metabolic Flexibility: Your body become a "Hybrid Car" able to switch between electricity (ketones/burn body fat) and gas (glucose) dependent on the activity.

    2) Decreased Caloric Intake: Skipping a meal or meals, lower you calorie intake.

    3) It increase "Fat burning hormones"; nor-epinephrine, epinephrine, and cortisol. Acute increases in cortisol burns fat, not muscle.

    4) It allows you to have some junk food, now and then.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  9. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    Good stuff, Kenny, you are a wealth of information. A few weeks ago I had to fast for 36 hours for a medical procedure and had no trouble doing it. So I suppose that's a good sign that I could do it and it would be a good tool for cutting calories.
     
  10. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    Metabolic Flexible

    That is a great sign.

    Evidently, you are Metabolically Flexible; able to utilized glucose or ketones.

    One Drive

    This is article goes into Rachel Gregory's Cross Fit Ketogenic Diet Research.

    Based on Gregory's research, it appears that once "Keto Adapted", performance is maintain and can go up while body fat percentage decrease.

    With that said, the general consensus is that "Glycolytic Energy Sports Athletes" may not fair well on a Ketogenic Diet.

    Glycolytic Energy Sports Research Data

    There are a multitude of problems with research finding that the Ketogenic Diet is counter productive for "Glycolytic Energy Athletes".

    The main issue is that the research studies was not performed long enough; it didn't allow the athletes to become "Keto Adapted". Thus, their performance dropped.

    Analogy

    It amount to changing from let say a High Back Narrow Squat to a Low Bar Wide Stance Squat. Performance will initially decreases.

    Ketogenic Diet And Training

    There a multitude of research on the Ketogenic Diet and Endurance Sports that demonstrates it may enhance performance.

    However, there is very little research how well Phosphagen and Glycolytic Sports and Trained Athletes my do on a Ketogenic Diet.

    Fat (ketones) generate more ATP than carbohydrates (glucose), which is good.

    ATP may be more quickly restored via glucose rather than ketones. That is one of the question that I haven't found an answer to.

    If glucose ATP Restoration is more efficient than with ketones, Keto Athletes may circumvent that issue by taking MCTs (Medium Chain Triglycerides) prior to training, decreasing Daily Training Volume (training more days for shorter time periods), taking longer rest periods between sets, and preforming compound exercise with Cluster Sets ( 1- 6 Reps).

    Kenny Croxdale
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  11. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    6AM training

    8AM 3 eggs cooked in a pat of butter.
    9:15AM 26 grams whey protein shake in 16 oz coconut water

    12:30PM 2 1/3 lbs hamburger patties, broccoli and cranberry salad with light oil vinegar dressing. One oz Lay's potato chips. Bowl if sliced strawberries.

    4:30PM one medium apple, 2 small clementines, Kind bar, two packages fruit snacks, one serving of Cheddar Sun Chips. We were traveling in the car all afternoon, and those were the snack we packed.
     
  12. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    5/13/2018

    Missed logging food yesterday. I felt "deep" hunger which I associate with having my total calories going too far below maintenance for a couple days. I wasn't super concerned about what I ate. I wanted to get a solid amount of calories. I also didn't have any bone broth to drink to ease myself into eating like I usually do.

    2:30 PM - Out for Mother's Day with my wife and kids! Celebrated with pulled pork nachos.

    6:00 PM - A couple of clementines.

    8:00 PM - 1 cup of vanilla ice cream.

    In general, I am trying to 20/4 IF schedule MWF and eat without observing meal timing the other days of the week. Sunday sort of turned out more of 16/8 but that was due to schedule stuff.
     
  13. dcc449

    dcc449 Triple-Digit Post Count

    @kennycro@@aol.com This is really fascinating stuff. I'm not sure there is an answer to this question, but how often does m-TOR need to be activated? I imagine that if muscle growth is a priority, more times per day/week is better, but is there an optimal balance (or a minimum effective dose)?
     
  14. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    5/14/2018

    4:45PM 8 oz bone broth

    5:45 Barbacoa tacos with guacamole, feta cheese, corn chips, red bell peppers and onions and cilantro lime coleslaw. A couple handfuls of peanuts.

    Made some cookies for the family and ate a tablespoon of raw cookie dough while I was making them. Didn't actually get to eat an tho...
     
  15. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    The mTOR Math

    You're right, I am not sure that there is a definitive answer. With that said, some math may provide us with a better perspective.

    Extrapolating The Refractory Period Data

    Dr Layne Norton's research determined that Muscle Protein Synthesis is stimulated when the mTOR signal is turned on.

    Norton found protein consumed every 4 - 6 hours optimized Muscle Protein Synthesis.

    Based on that information, it appears that 3 - 4 meals might be possible for triggering mTOR, Muscle Protein Synthesis during a day.

    Four meals a day (every 4 hours) would be something like meals at: 7 am, 11 am, 3 pm, and 8 pm.

    More Meals Per Day

    It appears triggering mTOR (Muscle Protein Synthesis) more often would be more effective with accelerating an increase in muscle mass.

    The Minimal Meals Per Day

    Based on the research and my personal experience, it appears that two to three meals a day that contained the right amount of Leucine would work.

    Exercise and mTOR

    Exercise also trigger mTOR. Thus, more frequent training session during the week can trigger the mTOR, anabolic effect.

    However, too much exercise leads to Overtraining; a loss of strength, power, size, etc.

    Goldilocks and The Three Bears

    Consuming the right around of protein (2.5 -4.5 gram of Leucine) at the right time interval (every 4 - 6 hours) with the right amount of exercise triggers mTOR, anabolic muscle building effect.

    It is like the Goldilocks' fable; you are looking for the right amount at the right time.

    The Leucine Dosage Age Factor

    Another determinate with dosage of Leucine is your age.

    Younger individual need a minimum of 2.5 grams of Leucine to trigger mTOR.

    Older individual need to ingest a larger dose of Leucine; 3 gram or more to trigger mTOR.

    That because older individuals don't process, digest and utilizes, protein/Leucine as effectively as younger individuals do.

    Pulse Feeding

    Plus Feeding means consuming higher protein intake with fewer meals.

    Research has demonstrated Pulse Feeding for older individuals is more effective for maintaining muscle mass and increase it.

    Pulse Feeding for younger individual really does not elicit a greater effect.

    Research Data Online

    All of the information that I have provide can be found online.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
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  16. dcc449

    dcc449 Triple-Digit Post Count

    Wow, great stuff. Your point on Pulse Feeding is really interesting. I've always been more of a grazer and hadn't thought much of it - but looking at my eating habits, I bet this results in me rarely (maybe just 1x day, 2x max) hitting the leucine needs in single meals to trigger mTOR. Going to make more of an effort to consolidate my protein intake!

    It would also seem that this is potentially a downside to intermittent fasting - its hard to get 2-3 large meals that are spaced by enough time unless you have an eating window of at least 8 hours (and even that is tight). Not that it isn't possible or that the benefits could be worth it - just a downside if muscle growth is a priority.

    Thank you for sharing your insights on this!

    @Ryan T Sorry for the thread hijack! Hope you also find this interesting.
     
  17. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    Hey not a problem! My purpose behind this was to stimulate this sort of conversation and get some good education and knowledge sharing. @kennycro@@aol.com has given us some good food for thought.

    @Steve Freides I don't mind having this conversation about mTOR, protein synthesis, etc, etc, etc... on my food log, but is there a way that these posts can be moved to a dedicated thread for the subject? We're getting some good stuff here and it would be nice to have it organized where others who don't care for a food log could more easily benefit from the info, book mark the thread, etc... If the answer is copy paste I can do that and start it myself.
     
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  18. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    @Ryan T, I haven't been following this thread in detail. Please send me a PM, and include a link to the thread plus the post numbers (they're in the lower right corner of the screen, between the Like button and the Bookmark button, but they are _not_ visible on some mobile devices - try turning your phone sideways to see if it helps) of the posts you think should be moved, suggest a title for the new thread and, armed with all that, I will read everything and take care of it.

    -S-
     
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  19. kennycro@@aol.com

    kennycro@@aol.com More than 500 posts

    The Right Tool For The Right Job

    As Dr Jose Antonio, PhD said,

    "Eating Is Anabolic"

    When it comes to increasing muscle mass, eating is the right tool for the job.

    However, eating is "Globally Anabolic"; that means that most of the time it not only increases muscle mass but it also increases fat mass.

    The ratio of Muscle Mass:Fat Mass gained is dependent on diet, exercise, genetics, etc.

    Intermittent Fasting Burn Fat

    When it comes to decreasing body fat, it the right tool for the job. It not the only "Diet Tool" for the job.

    Intermittent Fasting and some types of cardio type training produces an increase in...

    AMP-K (Activated Protein Kinase)

    AMP-K is the counter to mTOR.

    To paraphrase a quote by Jay Robb (Nutritionist)...

    "AMP-K is a Fat Taker (burner) and mTOR is a Muscle Maker (anabolic)"; a little over simplistic statement but it makes the point.

    When AMP-K is turned on the body is in a "Fat Burning Mode".

    Cyclical Process

    A well written and executed diet and exercise program will provide "Anabolic Muscle Building Cycles" in conjunction with "Catabolic Fat Burning Cycles"(where fat is burn but not muscle).

    There is an ebb and flow to everything: night and day, high and low tide, etc.

    Large Meals

    Consuming 3 large meals during the day shouldn't be an issue.

    As an example, my 3 meals are around 7 am, 12 pm and 6 pm.

    Consuming 2 large meals is easy.

    As an example, on an Intermittent Fasting Day, I have dinner at let's say at 6 pm on Friday Night.

    On Saturday, I have my first meal around 12 noon and my second and final meal of on Saturday around 6 pm.

    Intermittent Fasting Time

    That means my Fast from 6 pm Friday to 12 noon Saturday is 18 hours.

    Kenny Croxdale
     
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  20. Ryan T

    Ryan T More than 500 posts

    5/15/2018

    5 AM Training
    6:30 AM 1/2 cup cottage cheese, 26 g protein whey shake in 16 oz of coconut water and serving of Triskets. I know what you're thinking about the Triskets for breakfast, but after looking at the nutritional information, they're made with three ingredience one of which is whole grain flour, had 3 grams of fiber and 20 total grams of carbohydrates. I think that's a decent way to get some carbs in the AM without eating toast or a crap ton of veggies.

    12:00 PM 6 0z of shredded pork butt, 1/2 bell pepper and some slices of onion cooked in olive oil. Medium sized apple.

    7:30 PM 6 0z chicken and serving of green beans and white rice. Chicken had a very light breading and was pan seared and then baked.

    Desserts- 4 home-made cookies and a package of fruit snacks.

    Other than the dessert, my day of eating was pretty good. Although I haven't written it up there, I estimate my caloric intake for the day to be around 1800-1900 kcal.
     

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