Kettlebell S&S and bicep soreness

[NoILSteve]

Anyone else experience this? I've been doing S&S for 8 weeks or so and my biceps are constantly sore. Sometimes so sore it's a challenge to lift my kids! I'm not sure if it's coming from the goblet squats or the 1H swings. I'd like to hear others opinions on this, thanks!

 

[crazycanuck]

Are you able to post video of your swings?

 

[Hasbro]

I've personally never experienced that and the only time I've ever felt much strain on my biceps was when I moved up to the 24kg bell using a slightly bent arm at the top of the swing. Never any pain but I could see how it might cause issues for someone new to kb's especially if they're swinging too heavy a weight too soon and/or with a slightly bent arm throughout the swing. If you could answer the following questions it might help one of SFG's here to help you figure out what's going on. And yes posting a video would be good too.

1-Were you doing any form of exercise before S&S or did you start from a sedentary lifestyle?

2-Did you have any prior experience with kettlebells before starting S&S?

3-What weight bell are you using?

4-Do you keep your arms slightly bent throughout the swing or for portions of the swing?

 

[Im out]

I never experienced this with swings, but sometimes with cleans. Arm tension when fear of dropping the bell is present.

 

[Craig Fern]

Unfortunately I experienced this recently and posted about it here on the forum.
I was doing S & S for about 6 months or so and making good progress. When transitioning to one arm swings I strained by lower biceps and possibly the brachioradialis muscle probably by keeping the arm bent. I got good advice here about keeping the arm straight during the swings but the arm was already injured.

The pain became significant and I was experiencing a lot of discomfort when lifting my one year old, particularly into the car seat.

I eventually went to a physical therapist who recommended high rep (20-30), low weight curls, exaggerating the eccentric movement. I stopped all swinging and eventually the get ups as well. The arm got a little better but the pain persisted and got worse anytime I tried to do get ups or swings. Last week I had one ART and graston treatment and the arm feels 99 % better. I was able to lift my one and half year old this weekend without pain and did TGU for the first time in about 4 months.

I would recommended stopping S & S before this gets worse and consider seeking out an ART/Graston practitioner. Also, if you haven't already, once you are better, I would set up a few sessions with an SFG to make sure your technique is good.

Good luck,
Craig

 

[Oscar]

Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor

Question: what is the angle of your wrist at the bottom of the swing? Is the the thumb pointing backwards, neutral or forward?

In my opinion, if the thumb is pointing forward that could put some heavy stress on the biceps and branchioradialis at the bottom of the swing. Specially if you are allowing the arm to contact the body.

 

[Marc]

I would say this is not unusual at all.
The biceps stabilize the bell in goblet squats and also in GU. In addition to that they get a beating from 1H swings.

 

[North Coast Miller]

It is unlikely to be from the goblet squat.

As mentioned, having the thumb pointing backward at the bottom (inwardly rotating the entire arm) and making sure you actively are lowering the bell will help a lot.

If the bell is jerking at the bottom it will yank on the bicep, likewise if the thumb is pointing forward at the bottom will cause problems if not taken to a gentle pause.

I would highly recommend taking a long look at form and where there might be strain applied - DOMS should have subsided after a week.

 

[Marc]

Actually it might be normal when you use a new weight but if it is a constant soreness there might be an issue with tecnique.

 

[mark reinke]

I have been dealing with this type of issue from snatching when I jumped up in bells.

video yourself from multiple angles in slow motion and check for even the tiniest elbow bend or wrist curling on the backswing.
if you see any, fix it.

do your rubber band finger extensions a lot and get a green theraband flexbar. @Steve W. and @aciampa had some great advice on this for me.

 

[NoILSteve]

Wow, thank you for all the responses, this is why I love this community.
@Hasbro I've been active my whole life and had some KB experience prior to S&S. My experience was mostly 2H swings and TGU's. I started with 24kg and am currently working with 36kg. @crazycanuck This morning I videoed myself and I will add it tho this thread shortly.

@Craig Fern sorry to hear about your issues, thank you for sharing your experience with me to learn from.

In regards to the bottom of the position I have been turning my thumb back towards my butt and I have been doing that since I started.

I should have the video up in a bit. A couple of years ago I had a SFG1 help me/teach me the tgu, I know that's why I feel so much better with TGU's than I do swings.

 

[NoILSteve]

From today's session





I appreciate any and all feedback, thank you!

 

[Bauer]

I am just a beginner, but it seems to me that you are not hinging enough and might be pulling with your arms. Could you do towel swings and check if the bell stays stable? Also, it seems to me that you could hinge later ("play chicken with the bell").

 

[Hasbro]

I don't see anything that really glares out at me concerning your form other than you seem to be scrunching your shoulder at the top of the swing a bit but I'll let others that know better than me judge your form.

It might just be a case of too much weight too soon. I mean you started out with a 24kg which is a lot to begin with and within 8 weeks your using a 36kg. That makes my biceps hurt just thinking about it. Are you using the 36kg for the goblet squat warmups? If so are you doing the curls too?

 

[Anna C]

I agree with @Bauer, hinge could be deeper and need to hold the plank before hinging on the downswing. But two things to focus on even before that:

1) Your setup. It looks great, except that your shoulder is not packed. Grab the handle of the bell and draw the shoulder down towards your hip by tightening the lats under your armpit. Then, keep it there throughout the swing.

2) The standing plank - it isn't much of a plank, it looks like you're focusing on getting the bell up. Forget the bell. Focus on bringing your body into a tight vertical board (plank). Then hold it as long as possible until your arm begins to reconnect to the ribcage. Then hinge for the backswing. The bell will do what it should if your body does what it should. As your body comes into that tight plank on the upswing, the power then comes from ALL the muscles. Right now it looks like you're using your hips only to drive... which sounds correct, but hips driving is actually quads, glutes, hamstrings, abs... all coming from hinge to plank together in a powerful movement, like when you jump. Imagine if you tried to jump forward with just a hip movement! Not nearly as effective as using all the powerful muscles together.

As for the arms, it does appear that you're holding some tension there. The hips drive, the arms guide. The arms are just a rope... try to have them more relaxed.

And although these sound like big things (and they are -- you'll be amazed at the difference when you make the changes!), your swing is not all that far off from where it needs to be. Keep at it, and let us know how it goes!

 

[North Coast Miller]

^ This.
By not going deep enough on the downswing you are putting added stress on the arm right at the bicep insertion point.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

I never experienced this with swings, but sometimes with cleans. Arm tension when fear of dropping the bell is present.

Dan John: "the Kettlebell Clean might be the best "gun," or bicep, exercise made."

Take your usual S&S weight (the one you use for the 10x10) and do a set of 20 cleans with it. Besides curls nothing lights up my biceps like this.

 

[Steve W.]

Dan John: "the Kettlebell Clean might be the best "gun," or bicep, exercise made."

Take your usual S&S weight (the one you use for the 10x10) and do a set of 20 cleans with it. Besides curls nothing lights up my biceps like this.

I have done a LOT of double cleans (A+A sessions of over 60 repeats of 5 reps with double 28s).

One thing I try to minimize on my cleans is biceps involvement. That partial tension in a bent arm on the drop leaks power and is a recipe for medial elbow inflammation. And all the power on the up swing should come from the hips (hips drive/arm guides), although the biceps are certainly active in stabilizing the bells in the rack.

All due respect for Dan John, who is almost always a voice of reason and wisdom, but IMO a biceps pump from cleans can and should be avoided.

 

[King Cobra Fit]

2) The standing plank - it isn't much of a plank, it looks like you're focusing on getting the bell up. Forget the bell. Focus on bringing your body into a tight vertical board (plank). Then hold it as long as possible until your arm begins to reconnect to the ribcage. Then hinge for the backswing. The bell will do what it should if your body does what it should. As your body comes into that tight plank on the upswing, the power then comes from ALL the muscles. Right now it looks like you're using your hips only to drive... which sounds correct, but hips driving is actually quads, glutes, hamstrings, abs... all coming from hinge to plank together in a powerful movement, like when you jump. Imagine if you tried to jump forward with just a hip movement! Not nearly as effective as using all the powerful muscles together.

@Anna C this is pure poetry. Absolutely beautifully put. @NoILSteve if you can Practice these cues, you'll be golden! Little re-adjustment will make a big difference over the long run

 

[King Cobra Fit]

I would also echo the suggestion of getting deeper into your hinge. The way you're set up in your second video just before you start your swing, your hips are way back and your posterior chain is loaded, this is close to where you should try to get on every swing. Try to find this with the 16 or 20 Kg first. I know that it's way lighter than the 32, but it will help you safely find this position.

Rather than getting you 10 swings done as fast as possible, see how long it can take you, by reaching way back with the hips and then enjoying the float on the front side.

You'll move back to the 32 with "easy" looking swings in no time.