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Other/Mixed S&S and Half-Marathon Training

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Ryan R

Level 2 Valued Member
Hi,

Really excited to have found this community! I just finished reading S&S (reading through it a 2nd time now) and I had some questions about programming. I've been helping my roommate go from sedentary to now training for a half-marathon. I love running and I decided I'd do the half with him. I also just started doing S&S (this is my 4th week) and have some questions about programming the 2 together.

Some info about me:
Male, 30, 5ft9in, 180lbs, Don't know body comp but i'd estimate I'm about 15% body fat.
Injury history: Thankfully I am blessed right now with no pain anywhere in my body. I am not recovering from a significant injury.
Sports/competition history: I trained with weights bodybuilding style consistently from ages 17-19, took a break in college, then consistently again from 23-26. When I was 26 I started training the powerlifting lifts. My best low bar squat was 375lbs for 5 reps, bench was 280 for 5 reps, and deadlift was 450lbs for 5. I then got into Olympic lifting and trained under a very good coach. I trained and competed in Olympic lifting from March 2017-December 2018 (26-28 years old). My best snatch was 100kg, C&J was 120kg, front squat 137kg, high bar back squat 164kg.

In Jan 2019, I took a break from the gym and started running. I followed 2 of Hal Higdon's Novice plans, along with some Crossfit WOD's and lots of KB swings, snatches, clean and presses with my 16kg kb (I liked to do 20-minute circuits with combos of these movements with front squats about 2-3 days/week with the running). Then did a random mix of running and calisthenics this past winter. In Feb 2020 I bought a barbell, bumper plates, and ever since reading S&S bought a 24 kg and 32 kg kettlebell. That brings me to now.

So where do I want to go from here? I love strength training and contrary to what I thought until last summer, I actually love running as well. I was really excited to find this community that encourages both. So that being said, I need some help with critiquing my program.

As of right now, I am planning on the following 2 training programs: Hal Higdon's Novice base training, which is a 12-week, 4-day per week plan to build up to 6 miles comfortably. From there, I am planning on following his half-marathon novice 1 program for the next 12-week block which will end with the half that hopefully happens still in November. Depending on how the half goes, my plan now is to just continue baseline running after the half due to the time dedicated to this type of training being a bit much. I don't care that much about crushing a certain time in the half, more focused on just actually finishing it. Sub 2 hours would be nice though.

For strength, I am on week 4 of swings and get-ups with a 24kg kettlebell. I am loving the program and just plan on doing this until I reach the Simple goal, then Sinister.

So my questions: Is there a better, more efficient plan to get stronger and train for the half than the above programs? Also, I still love the barbell movements, especially snatches and clean & jerks and I miss doing them. I am interested in Zercher squats now that I've read about Pavel's opinion on them. Do you see room to add some barbell movements in here as well? At least during the first 12-week block? The answer might be that it's a bit too ambitious and I'm okay with that. But if it's possible then I'd like to do it.

Thank you for reading my long post and I appreciate any feedback you might be able to offer.

Ryan R.
 
If you add more stuff to your plan it would sound more like an OCR plan than an Half Marathon one!

If you just keep the s&s daily + your program you will be fine, I would do it in different times (morning and evenings) if I had to, stronger will come with your S&S plan and your other plan will do the rest.

If you want to recover more (and here you should listen your body) maybe you could do S&S just on the days you are running less miles or resting days (4 or 5 days a week)

I wouldn't add anything to your plant if your goal is aerobic capacity and complete the half-marathon..
 
Ryan R said:
Hi,

Really excited to have found this community! I just finished reading S&S (reading through it a 2nd time now) and I had some questions about programming. I've been helping my roommate go from sedentary to now training for a half-marathon. I love running and I decided I'd do the half with him. I also just started doing S&S (this is my 4th week) and have some questions about programming the 2 together.

Some info about me:
Male, 30, 5ft9in, 180lbs, Don't know body comp but i'd estimate I'm about 15% body fat.
Injury history: Thankfully I am blessed right now with no pain anywhere in my body. I am not recovering from a significant injury.
Sports/competition history: I trained with weights bodybuilding style consistently from ages 17-19, took a break in college, then consistently again from 23-26. When I was 26 I started training the powerlifting lifts. My best low bar squat was 375lbs for 5 reps, bench was 280 for 5 reps, and deadlift was 450lbs for 5. I then got into Olympic lifting and trained under a very good coach. I trained and competed in Olympic lifting from March 2017-December 2018 (26-28 years old). My best snatch was 100kg, C&J was 120kg, front squat 137kg, high bar back squat 164kg.

In Jan 2019, I took a break from the gym and started running. I followed 2 of Hal Higdon's Novice plans, along with some Crossfit WOD's and lots of KB swings, snatches, clean and presses with my 16kg kb (I liked to do 20-minute circuits with combos of these movements with front squats about 2-3 days/week with the running). Then did a random mix of running and calisthenics this past winter. In Feb 2020 I bought a barbell, bumper plates, and ever since reading S&S bought a 24 kg and 32 kg kettlebell. That brings me to now.

So where do I want to go from here? I love strength training and contrary to what I thought until last summer, I actually love running as well. I was really excited to find this community that encourages both. So that being said, I need some help with critiquing my program.

As of right now, I am planning on the following 2 training programs: Hal Higdon's Novice base training, which is a 12-week, 4-day per week plan to build up to 6 miles comfortably. From there, I am planning on following his half-marathon novice 1 program for the next 12-week block which will end with the half that hopefully happens still in November. Depending on how the half goes, my plan now is to just continue baseline running after the half due to the time dedicated to this type of training being a bit much. I don't care that much about crushing a certain time in the half, more focused on just actually finishing it. Sub 2 hours would be nice though.

For strength, I am on week 4 of swings and get-ups with a 24kg kettlebell. I am loving the program and just plan on doing this until I reach the Simple goal, then Sinister.

So my questions: Is there a better, more efficient plan to get stronger and train for the half than the above programs? Also, I still love the barbell movements, especially snatches and clean & jerks and I miss doing them. I am interested in Zercher squats now that I've read about Pavel's opinion on them. Do you see room to add some barbell movements in here as well? At least during the first 12-week block? The answer might be that it's a bit too ambitious and I'm okay with that. But if it's possible then I'd like to do it.

Thank you for reading my long post and I appreciate any feedback you might be able to offer.

Ryan R.
Click to expand...

Welcome to SF

S&S by the book (I'm glad you are reading it twice)
Running (mostly LED, although you will need to meter in some speedwork somewhere along the way)

Should be all you need to meet your current goal.

Again, welcome...
 
@Ryan R Welcome!

What @offwidth said /\ /\

S&S + easy running sounds like a solid plan. I think just be open to adding extra recovery days in as required & focusing on consistency above all else as you learn how your body responds to the running / KB training combo.

Maybe after the 1/2 then get back into the Oly lifts?

I dare say blocks of 12 weeks KB, then 12 weeks Oly focused lifting would make you pretty beastly!
 
pet' said:
Hello,

@Ryan R
Here is an interesting material:
www.strongfirst.com

Running Without Running: Training For A Half-Marathon When You Have A Full Schedule | StrongFirst

Distance running requires good movement and endurance. How could a strength program lead to half-marathon success after only 5 training runs?
www.strongfirst.com

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...

very interesting article. I hope to reach that level of mental strength one day, but not there yet ?

Thank you @offwidth @kiwipete @Eyetic feels good to be confident about the plan then. You guys mentioned “LED” running. What does the LED stand for?

also, @offwidth would you recommend doing some speed work on an every other week frequency?

thanks again all for the welcomes and advice!
 
Happy that you appreciated the article, @Ryan R and no, this is not a high level of mental strength here. It was only a half-marathon. ;)

I did not answer so far, because I felt that you already had good advice so far. But as you mentioned reading my article (yes, I am the author of this one), I will just add a few comments.

When I did this experiment and wrote the article, my point was that it was more important for a new-comer to develop strength than just go and run, so I put the experience to the extreme by minimizing running.
Considering your numbers, you already have a good strength basis. You are pretty much set on this part.

LED stands for Long easy distance. This is the basis of aerobic training, the one that too many people avoid. The way I do it is that I WALK a lot, and fast. I simply don't like running, and I can avoid it because of all the walking I do in every day life.
You mentioned that you actually LIKE running, so do it! Focus on easy sessions, MAF-style.

Also, you have plenty of time until the half-marathon, if it is planned in November.

A half-marathon is not a long race, and anybody in good shape can finish it. By training LED for months, you will be able to finish it. Maybe not with a super-time, but you will finish it.

If you want to hit a time, you would need some specific preparation.
It only requires a few weeks.
About 6 weeks before the event, you can start it. For example: three sessions per week; one is LED (the ong run), one is a tough intervals (very short sprint, active recovery in-between), one is easiest interval (fast run, but not sprint, and active recovery in between).

Meantime, strength training and LED should get you well prepared.
 
Ryan R said:
very interesting article. I hope to reach that level of mental strength one day, but not there yet ?

Thank you @offwidth @kiwipete @Eyetic feels good to be confident about the plan then. You guys mentioned “LED” running. What does the LED stand for?

also, @offwidth would you recommend doing some speed work on an every other week frequency?

thanks again all for the welcomes and advice!
Click to expand...
I would focus more on the LED running at this point. Like @jef said, a half marathon is a pretty short distance. If this is your first one, I would just focus on finishing (should be easy though...). If you do want a decent time on this one or subsequent ones, then following what @jef said will work very well.
 
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