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Kettlebell S&S and PTTP mix

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Shawn Szczepkowski

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Whats the best way to go about mixing the 2 programs? I can usually make it to the gym for barbell work twice a week and have all my kettlebells at home. Doing just S&S gets boring.
 
I think you're supposed to not do the S&S programme on the days you do your barbell work.
 
I didn't plan on mixing the 2 on the same day. Here are more specific questions.

If I do PTTP 2 days, how many should I do S&S? The 2 day minimum or is it beneficial to do more?

Whats the best starting point for PTTP? My max set of 5 is 295 in the deadlift and 200 in the bench.
 
What are your goals? At some point we all have to prioritize due to restrictions (be they time, ability to recover, etc., so rank your goals for us).

How long have have you been doing S&S?

Have you done a cycle of PTTP from start to finish before?

What's your height/weight, and what bell size are you working S&S at?

(not to answer a question with an inquisition...but those should help people give a useful answer)
 
Hello,

I think you can do a light S&S for variety / light days, once or twice a week.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Right now my goals are to lose fat and feel good every day, eventually train BJJ again.

Im 5' 10" and quite overweight at 300lbs. I did S&S for 3 months and really only just started to work with the 24kg bell more often. I feel like im on the lower end of recovery but could be the extra weight I carry. I lost 15lbs on my 3 months of S&S.

I got bored of just doing S&S and thought maybe I would go back to the barbell. Im doing 531 but at this point Im feeling like its taking more than its giving.

If I could mix the 2 to keep things interesting for me without killing myself that would keep me going in the right direction.
 
I am currently doing 3-4 days a week of S&S, and PTTP 2-3 days a week with good progress. I go by feel. I go heavy when I feel good, and lighter when I need it. Don't think or stress about it, but just try what works for you and see how it goes.

I do extra back work because I place a high value on it, and I cannot help but modify a great program.
 
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I am currently doing 3-4 days a week of S&S, and PTTP 2-3 days a week with good progress. I go by feel. I go heavy when I feel good, and lighter when I need it. Don't think or stress about it, but just try what works for you and see how it goes.

I do extra back work because I place a high value on it, and I cannot help but modify a great program.
Can I ask what your PTTP warm up looks like? I know the book advocates no warm up but I think a couple warm up sets wouldnt hurt considering im only doing it 2 days a week
 
Hello,

@Geoff Chafe

That is interesting. That way you listen to your body and you always have enough recovery.


Would not it be a lot of training : 1 or2 training sessions of BJJ + 1 or 2 of S&S + 1 or 2 of PTTP ?

When I played boxing, I had 2 boxing sessions a week, and I added 2 (max 3 if I felt good) GPP.

Kind regards,

Pet'
BJJ is on the back burner until I can make the scheduled classes regularly . right now its not possible with work and my kids schedules.
 
Hello,

BJJ is on the back burner until I can make the scheduled classes regularly . right now its not possible with work and my kids schedules.
Ah ok, my bad ! So forget what I previously said !

A mix "a la Geoff Chafe" or "a la Pavel" is conceivable because you will use them as your single physical activity, on an everyday basis.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I got bored of just doing S&S

You've seen the tip of the iceberg but not the mammoth that is below the surface. S&S is a meditation. It's about controlling your attention and directing it towards "the pursuit of the perfect rep" It's about developing the body awareness to feel the difference when a rep goes better or worse than expected. It's also about internalizing all those strength cues until they become automatic.

I would second advise to stick with S&S until you hit simple.
 
Having done blended barbell and kettlebell training blends for a long while now and having achieved Simple here are some options:

1) 2 x PTTP and 2x S&S as @Pavel Macek stated
2) 3 x S&S and 2 x PTTP, which you said fits your own schedule
3) 3 x PTTP and 2 x S&S (IF your bigger priority is barbell versus kettlebell related training)
 
@Shawn Szczepkowski My last PTTP session:
- broom stick drills, dislocates(standing, half kneeling, kneeling, Hinging, squatting), around the world, windmill stick, OHS, walking lunges and twist
- a few stretches, Stoney, Brettzel, down dog
- prying goblet squat 3x3@40kg, double bell clean+rack carry 5x5+5laps@24kg/ea (I need clean practice right now), paused chin-ups3x3

Conventional Deadlift
135x5
185x4
225x3
275x2
315x1
365x1
415x5@100%
375x5@90%
335x5@80%

Axel Rack Press
up and overs 2x10@red band
45x5
95x5
135x3
165x5@100%
150x5@90%
135x5@80%

Axel Pendelay Rows - 3x8-12@235

Hangs, 90/90, QL cool down, 72 min.
 
+1 to Pavel and Geoffe from my experience also. The best program to do is the one you DO and if you find S&S a little dull, modify it.

I would not hesitate to perform 2 days of each per week. I think each will assist the other more than either will restrict the other. I would try to keep the swings front loaded in your sessions to keep the power high as intended. 4 days of training for me each week is the sweet spot and personally would start with:

S&S: Monday/Thursday
PTTP: Tuesday/Saturday
or
S&S: Monday/Thursday
PTTP: Tuesday/Friday

Recovery/overtraining is a broad thing and can be influenced with calories/sleep/intensity/volume/type of load/etc. Find out what volume for each session keeps you progressing and then stick with it, erring on the side of too little. I find the intensity number of lifts (INOL) formula to be a decent place to start to get in the ballpark. I've found most popular programs to be pretty inline with that formula. I think "feel" comes pretty fast after that.
 
Right now my goals are to lose fat and feel good every day, eventually train BJJ again.

Im 5' 10" and quite overweight at 300lbs. I did S&S for 3 months and really only just started to work with the 24kg bell more often. I feel like im on the lower end of recovery but could be the extra weight I carry. I lost 15lbs on my 3 months of S&S.

I got bored of just doing S&S and thought maybe I would go back to the barbell. Im doing 531 but at this point Im feeling like its taking more than its giving.

If I could mix the 2 to keep things interesting for me without killing myself that would keep me going in the right direction.

Honestly in your situation and with your goals PTTP wouldn't be my first choice for something to add. It's a pure strength program, and while it's a fine program it's a low calorie output program.

If you're 3 months into S&S you still have a lot of adaptation to milk out of that program. You'll get plenty of strength out of it, and you'll be getting cardiovascular benefits and calorie burning benefits that PTTP doesn't offer. Stick with S&S until you hit the Simple goal, then think about adding PTTP. The advice above from Pavel Macek and others are fine examples of how to do that.

If you must have variety for training complience then I think your time would be better served with adding a day or two of low intensity long duration aerobic base building. Something with a duration over 40 minutes (60 mins even better). The Maffetone method is very popular here, and you should be able to find plenty of posts with info on how to employ it.

Alternatively, you could get a psychological break by doing something like taking 2 training days per week and doing endurance KB Swing work with a lighter bell. Step down to 12kg or 16kg and do repeats of 20-40+ reps. This will burn a good deal of calories, train your cardiovascular capacity, work the groove of your swing, and give you some variety.

Keep in mind that if you change too many things around you're no longer doing Simple and Sinister, you're doing a hybrid program of your own making, so how you progress becomes more of a crapshoot, however, I echo the sentiment that the best program is one you can stick to...so do what you must to find a psychological match for where you're at :)

Unproven program = Unproven results.
 
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