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Kettlebell S&S and striking

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pet' said:
Hello,


In Savate, meaning in the same federation, there is stick fighting as well. This is a kind of fencing. I think I'll give a shot next year, especially to improve joint mobility, reaction time and power !

Kind regards,

Pet'
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La canne! An ancient and noble art, monsieur!

I used to do a lot of short staff fighting (4ft staff). Quite interesting.

The foil is especially interesting as it's the most traditional French sword fighting still in practice as far as I know.
 
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Hello,

Yesterday evening, during the boxing session, we talked about how to get fast and powerful.

It eventually ended up with:
- Proper breathing during the strike. That way, we are perfectly relaxed. This is why we often hear this kind of breath boxers do.
- Proper technique: learning how the drill works. First, performing it slow, to really create some kind of mind-muscle connexion. Then, performing it faster. Usually a strike comes from the ground so it implies a good biomechanic (feet / leg / core / shoulder / arm / fist). This is why this is important to first focus on technique to erase all kind of parasitic move.
- When technique is secured, several options may be considered, but they can get very sport specific. In general, when it comes to weight training, "power" moves, such as cleans / C&Js / push-presses / jumping lunges / jumping squats. Slow eccentric DLs and squats with fast concentric.

In this boxing session, there are some guys who never touch weights. They just spar over and over again, and also hit the heavy bag. Then, they have an excellent technique, are extremely powerful, but as a "drawback" they are very sport specific. For instance, some of them are barely able to do 30 push ups.

Basically, adding a physical preparation may be a good idea, but it will never, ever, replace the practice per se. This physical preparation may give some confidence but it has to be done accordingly to the goal.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
offwidth said:
Yes... but do any of them need to be able to do 30 push-ups?
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I assume his point is that in spite of not being able to do the 30 pushups they are perfectly fit to box and so pushups are not needed.

I'm aware that S&S is not in any way the ideal co-training regimen for judo, but I like it for its own reasons as its own pursuit, which happens to help aspects of judo too.
 
I'll add that I don't think a lot of martial arts are as good in terms of exercise value as are many forms of weight and fitness training. This includes judo.
 
Hello,

@offwidth
@Kozushi is right. They are perfectly fit for boxing (fast, smooth, have endurance, etc...) because their body have been naturally adapting to this kind of effort. But I do not believe they actually need to be able to perform these push ups, which is something I saw during warm-ups.

In terms of pure fitness, this is always curious to notice that in the locker room, some of those "boxing-fit" / "fighting-fit" guys are either pretty skinny (without even really visible abs but visible ribcage, like Sean O'Malley or Max Holloway), or almost "fat" like Daniel Cormier).

I should mention that different combat sports or martial arts require different training regimens. For instance, @Kozushi will certainly benefits far more from doing TGU to perform judo than I'll do for boxing. The reverse remains true, at least to a certain extent: maybe I'll benefit more doing clap push ups for boxing than him. In both cases, performing the two remains the best option if one aims to get a "complete" GPP.

Plus, we also have to consider the difference between the "daily routine" and the "pre-fight" routine in the camp.

Here are some training routines (but I guess they have to be taken with a pinch of salt):
Carl Froch's routine:
Carl Froch's Boxing Workout

Pacquiao's routine:
Manny Pacquiao Training Camp Analysis - Boxing Science

Anyway, here is just to link to realize how many training methods there are, depending on the fighting style, preferences, etc...
Fitness Archives - Evolve Daily
Among them, here is an interesting one:
According To This World Champion, Here's How To Work Out Effectively In Just 30 Minutes - Evolve Daily

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello,

@offwidth
@Kozushi is right. They are perfectly fit for boxing (fast, smooth, have endurance, etc...) because their body have been naturally adapting to this kind of effort. But I do not believe they actually need to be able to perform these push ups, which is something I saw during warm-ups.

In terms of pure fitness, this is always curious to notice that in the locker room, some of those "boxing-fit" / "fighting-fit" guys are either pretty skinny (without even really visible abs but visible ribcage, like Sean O'Malley or Max Holloway), or almost "fat" like Daniel Cormier).

I should mention that different combat sports or martial arts require different training regimens. For instance, @Kozushi will certainly benefits far more from doing TGU to perform judo than I'll do for boxing. The reverse remains true, at least to a certain extent: maybe I'll benefit more doing clap push ups for boxing than him. In both cases, performing the two remains the best option if one aims to get a "complete" GPP.

Plus, we also have to consider the difference between the "daily routine" and the "pre-fight" routine in the camp.

Here are some training routines (but I guess they have to be taken with a pinch of salt):
Carl Froch's routine:
Carl Froch's Boxing Workout

Pacquiao's routine:
Manny Pacquiao Training Camp Analysis - Boxing Science

Anyway, here is just to link to realize how many training methods there are, depending on the fighting style, preferences, etc...
Fitness Archives - Evolve Daily
Among them, here is an interesting one:
According To This World Champion, Here's How To Work Out Effectively In Just 30 Minutes - Evolve Daily

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...

It also depends on the purpose of the martial art. I do Muay Thai just as an exciting way to do cardio and keep fit at middle age. There are other reasons, but they are not related to competition. Most people in martial arts don't fight competitively even at the amateur level. Therefore, in my case, weight training is important as part of a balanced approach to fitness, even if it would have a negative effect on boxing, which I don't think it does as I train for strength and strength-endurance not bodybuilding. I don't need to meet weight to fight unlike some of the other guys in my gym. Real Muay Thai fighters are much leaner than I want to be (are willing to be) at my height. I recognize that this limits my potential to develop the skill fully, but it doesn't matter to me. Skill in the sport is only one factor in my overall approach to fitness.
 
guardian7 said:
It also depends on the purpose of the martial art. I do Muay Thai just as an exciting way to do cardio and keep fit at middle age. There are other reasons, but they are not related to competition. Most people in martial arts don't fight competitively even at the amateur level. Therefore, in my case, weight training is important as part of a balanced approach to fitness, even if it would have a negative effect on boxing, which I don't think it does as I train for strength and strength-endurance not bodybuilding. I don't need to meet weight to fight unlike some of the other guys in my gym. Real Muay Thai fighters are much leaner than I want to be (are willing to be) at my height. I recognize that this limits my potential to develop the skill fully, but it doesn't matter to me. Skill in the sport is only one factor in my overall approach to fitness.
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X2!

Exactly! Martial arts are excellent for cardio, but that's about it. If we want to actually be strong, or to look better, leaner etc, we need a proper exercise regimen tailored exactly for this (like S&S) and not some kind of military fighting or street defence war art. I like the fact that judo involves some "lifting" in it, but it still isn't designed for this. It is designed to throw an assailant onto the ground thus taking away his ability to hit you, and to pin him there or worse if necessary and he doesn't have friends around (why I think BJJ has got it wrong as far as self defence goes - you fall to the ground with someone and pin them and you're done if he has a friend around.) I do S&S for keeping fit, and judo is for self-defence readiness, entertainment, and cardio.
 
Hello,

In addition to what @Kozushi said, I think that pure strength may also be beneficial for striking power.

Indeed, the power is the ability to transfer a certain amount of strength in a certain amount of time. Then, to a certain extent, the S&S get ups are beneficial even in striking art.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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