Kettlebell S&S avoiding the glycolytic system

[candelas]

My HR doesn't stay under MAF when I do S&S swings (10 swings per set) especially if I go moderate to heavy.

Mine neither, and I totally agree with your point. As you pointed out in a previous reply, one think is to train below MAF HR (light bell) and another to train for power and strength using a heavier bell.

"..It is unlikely you will progress all the way to the “sinister” goal by following your HR in training. Occasionally, you will need to compress your rest periods and go glycolytic."

 

[pet']

Hello,

My HR doesn't stay under MAF when I do S&S swings (10 swings per set) especially if I go moderate to heavy.

My MAF of 180-age+5 would be 136, and my HR goes consistently to 145-147

Would it be the same with a slightly lighter bell (20 or a "22 DIY" ?)

Even if you are slighly higher than the MAF formula, you are very regular. I think it is the most important and it also means that you recover very well between your sets (good muscle oxygenation)

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Anna C]

Would it be the same with a slightly lighter bell (20 or a "22 DIY" ?)

At 20kg my HR is very slightly lower, maybe 3 or 4 bpm, still not close to MAF. And 20kg is well below what I can swing for 10 swings 1H (24, 28, and 32kg). What makes my HR lower is if I do the swings a little more "gently"... soft-ish swings, not quite so high, and not generate so much tension in the plank.... but then, I'm moving away from hardstyle.... and while it could meet certain other objectives, it is definitely not S&S.

Even if you are slightly higher than the MAF formula, you are very regular. I think it is the most important and it also means that you recover very well between your sets (good muscle oxygenation)

I agree.

 

[Dan_123]

I don't know if there is something wrong with me. I really struggle to get my heart rate up to MAF. I just started using the 32 for 2 sets in 1h swings and it does go near it for a few seconds. The 24 nowhere near.

I guess that's fine for strength training but I'm also trying to do aerobic training on a bike so the goal is to get close to MAF and stay there. I usually can only get to 115bpm my MAF should be 135 and I'm already going fast, near flat out with legs starting to burn.

I'm still pretty overweight and quit smoking a few months this ago so maybe my lungs are still recovering or I'm just carrying too much weight on the bike but it doesn't seem right my legs are burning whilst my heart rate is so low??

Any ideas @Anna C ?

 

[Dan_123]

Sorry forgot to add my resting HR is 55bpm so not sure it that changes things.

 

[offwidth]

Sorry forgot to add my resting HR is 55bpm so not sure it that changes things.

When you say 'bike' what do you mean? Exercise bike? Bicycle mounted on a trainer or rollers, or a bike outside? I find it hard to fathom that you can't get your heart rate higher than that on a bike. My RHR is in the 40's. Riding outside with hills and challenging conditions I struggle to keep my rate down to my MAF at times. It's easy for me to redline if I want to.
I suspect there may be other factors at play here.

 

[Dan_123]

Sorry, outside on a bike. Where I live is extremely flat.

Maybe some hills would help. I was just confused as my heart rate stayed so low yet I felt my legs were burning. This is my 10th week of cycling now 4-5 times a week for 1 hour and 8th week of S&S.

I did a tempo run last night (12 seconds at 70% max for 15 sets) and it felt okay. I thought perhaps the bike was too efficient on the flat to get my HR up to MAF but even then it seemed kinda low.

Do I have a weird heart and the worst lungs? I did smoke for 15 years untill 2 mo this ago.

 

[offwidth]

Well smoking takes its toll. The best thing is you quit. You say you ride for an hour (and are going fast). How far do you ride in that hour (kilometers or miles)?

Only a cardiologist can tell you if you have a weird heart.

 

[Anna C]

Hmm, interesting case, @Dan_123

When your HR is low but your legs are burning, what is your breathing like?

Congrats on quitting smoking!!

 

[Dan_123]

@offwidth Not that far at all, 17.5km in an hour on a flat so still newbie distances and speeds.

@Anna C My breathings okay. That was what confused me. I thought perhaps because of smoking and a lack of oxygen getting to the muscles my body switches to gylcosis very quickly? Maybe I have a lazy heart and he just says "I'm not beating any quicker, take over gylcogen" Lol.

I mean it's not a huge deal the excess weight is dropping off me and I am progressing incredibly in strength in S&S.

I read today that it takes 8 mo this for the lungs to recover from smoking so perhaps it will sort itself out and I can get into MAF easier.

 

[offwidth]

Okay, so not terribly fast then. (No disrespect intended. You will get there) Perhaps it's a gearing issue, and you may want to experiment with that a bit. (Although hills are king) The weight loss and strength increases are all excellent signs that some of this stuff is working as advertised. Keep up the good work Dan!

 

[Dan_123]

Lol No offence taken dude! I saw some of the times/speeds average cyclists put in and thought "holy sh*t. I have a loooong way to go."

One thing I read on the Maffetone website was it can take years to build a big aerobic base so if that's the case then so be it.

After always gassing out during sports in my youth (getting subbed after 45 mins of a basketball game despite being captain) I would love to build a big engine using these cool methods. After seeing how awesome S&S is for strength I've gone a bit crazy and said "This is awesome, what else can I do??"

 

[Anna C]

the excess weight is dropping off me and I am progressing incredibly in strength in S&S.

Stay the course! Great that you are cycling and doing S&S. A great combo.

 

[Dan_123]

Thanks @Anna C . Do you do any other aerobic work? I know you like cycling too.

Im trying to stay away from things that will put too much stress on my joints while I lose weight so I can keep my S&S strong and a good level of aerobic work. I tried some tempo runs last night (12 secs 70% effort sprint, rest 60 seconds repeat 15-25 times. Felt good and similar to a good S&S session afte it but I know aerobic work is a out getting in the time so this cycling thing has been annoying me.

I did like swimming before but do not live near a pool anymore. Gonna try some rope jumping and see how that feels tomorrow.

 

[Anna C]

Thanks Anna. Do you do any other aerobic work? I know you like cycling too.

Yes, quite a bit here lately... Skip to the end of my training log for recent details.

Have you tried running to a MAF HR? That would go well with S&S; keep it low-stress, work up to time/distance slowly.

 

[Dan_123]

Yes, quite a bit here lately... Skip to the end of my training log for recent details.

Have you tried running to a MAF HR? That would go well with S&S; keep it low-stress, work up to time/distance slowly.

I think to get the time in 45-90 mins would be way too much running a few times a week. .

I guess I'll just have to wait till the weight comes off to get a more intensive. Sorry to take thread a bit OT guys.

Will be interesting to see what Pavel comes out with soon. This type of training gives so much bang for the buck. It's cool to hear from everybody working with it.

 

[offwidth]

Lol No offence taken dude! I saw some of the times/speeds average cyclists put in and thought "holy sh*t. I have a loooong way to go."

One thing I read on the Maffetone website was it can take years to build a big aerobic base so if that's the case then so be it.

After always gassing out during sports in my youth (getting subbed after 45 mins of a basketball game despite being captain) I would love to build a big engine using these cool methods. After seeing how awesome S&S is for strength I've gone a bit crazy and said "This is awesome, what else can I do??"

This is true. It can take a very long time to develop that big aerobic engine. But well worth it in the long haul; in my opinion

 

[Boosh32]

I don't know if there is something wrong with me. I really struggle to get my heart rate up to MAF. I just started using the 32 for 2 sets in 1h swings and it does go near it for a few seconds. The 24 nowhere near.

I guess that's fine for strength training but I'm also trying to do aerobic training on a bike so the goal is to get close to MAF and stay there. I usually can only get to 115bpm my MAF should be 135 and I'm already going fast, near flat out with legs starting to burn.

I'm still pretty overweight and quit smoking a few months this ago so maybe my lungs are still recovering or I'm just carrying too much weight on the bike but it doesn't seem right my legs are burning whilst my heart rate is so low??

Any ideas @Anna C ?

As I understand the MAF program the goal is to not exceed the MAF heart rate when doing aerobic training. It is not a number to chase. I highly recommend you discuss your HR with your doctor. Everyone is different so only a in-person examination can determine your health.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Is there some influence of the rest HR ?

What I notice it that if one has a low HR, maybe it is difficult to have a fast progress (at least at the beginning) with MAF. Besides, if you live in moutains / altitude, this aspect has an influence too. We have to breathe "more" and / or have more red blood cells.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Steve Freides]

I think we'd all agree that the MAF heart rate prediction is just that, a prediction, a guesstimate, and although I've not seen any science to either support or refute what I'm about to say, I think there is a significant amount of individual variability in this. Since the only way to test it would be very expensive and time-consuming, if it was possible at all, I say go with your gut as @Anna C has done. Your recovery, both short- and long-term, will give you clues as to whether or not you're keeping with the spirit of minimizing the use of the glycolytic system in your training.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-