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Kettlebell S&S For Dead Heads

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Benedictine Monk

Benedictine Monk

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Heh.

Based on a variety of consultations I've decided to drop the Swing portion of S&S (for now) and dropped back in the barbell deadlift. I may have to keep this thread going in the Barbell forum, but I thought I'd briefly summarize my thoughts here and anyone can feel free to jump in.

Basically, I suspect I'm now at a stage where I've corrected most of my movement dysfunction and I'm now trying to repair weaknesses that have accumulated. To do that, I think its prudent to reboot where I entered this process way back in 2007 with PTTP but using the TGU as my "press". This means I'm only losing on half of S&S so that when I return to it I will only be having to shore up my swing to hit simple (don't know if I'll hit TGU Simple on the deads but I can't wait to see).

So, for now its 5 days a week (M-F, but perhaps Sa if I take a day off during the week) using the dead on a fixed weight with sets of 5, 3, 2 reps respectively (10 reps a day total, 5 minutes between sets) followed by a brief rest and then 10 TGUs (5 per side). I hate weight changes during deads, so I'm taking advantage of a modified PTTP protocol.

I'll be doing them Marty Gallagher style (or more appropriately what I can recall of a training session where I was shown some of Gallaghers cues and technique recommendations by another instructor).

The only part I have to worry about is a waving pattern and what size of jumps.

My motivation? I'm trying to hammer my weaknesses all at once (grip, hip and ab) without chasing correctives to the point of diminishing returns which seemed to be happening recently. My right glute seemed to be switching off frequently and my erectors were getting annoyed.

My supplemental work (and objective gauge of grip progress) is a set of CoC grippers, IMTUGs, Expand Your Hand Bands and Chinese Dexterity Balls. The grippers are done twice a week (Wednesday and Sundays most weeks) and I may throw in the Ab Pavelizer after a few weeks.

My goals?

Dead: 2 x bodyweight. No prisoners.

Grip: Intermediate Goal: CoC #1, Longer term: CoC #2

Thoughts as always are welcome.
 
I understand what you are trying to work on, improving base strength using deadlifts and TGU's. The only thing I see wrong with your reasoning is that, and this is just my opinion, the TGU's, while hard, are only about 15-20% of S&S being the actual swings. You may want to check out Dan Johns Even Easier Strength. You can still hit deadlifts and TGU's and do may be 50-75 swings a day and you wont lose the endurance you gained through the swings you have already done. Hope this helps.
 
ShawnM said:
I understand what you are trying to work on, improving base strength using deadlifts and TGU's. The only thing I see wrong with your reasoning is that, and this is just my opinion, the TGU's, while hard, are only about 15-20% of S&S being the actual swings. You may want to check out Dan Johns Even Easier Strength. You can still hit deadlifts and TGU's and do may be 50-75 swings a day and you wont lose the endurance you gained through the swings you have already done. Hope this helps.
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I understand your point (and I may consider it) but given I had to dial all the way back to one armed swings with a 16 kg and was finally using the breathing properly, I'm not sure I'll be losing all that much.
 
what's wrong with dialing back to 16kg one-armed swings? Nothing's better than doing whatever's appropriate at the time. You can only make progress if you do what's right for you at the time and get good recovery. I'd be most impressed if you did the 16 properly for a long enough time to own it!
 
Matts said:
what's wrong with dialing back to 16kg one-armed swings? Nothing's better than doing whatever's appropriate at the time. You can only make progress if you do what's right for you at the time and get good recovery. I'd be most impressed if you did the 16 properly for a long enough time to own it!
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Well, its not the 16's per se - its the fact that my erectors were getting angry because my glutes were turning off every once in awhile. I have numerous issues but my left shoulder was acting up because of my right hip, but my right hip may now be acting up because of a latent posterior tibialis issue (required acupuncture/dry needling to unstick).

When I was humiliated by the Ab Pavelizer that's when the light bulb started to go off that it was time to back to a closed chain grip and rip protocol. After just 3 days, my ankles have calmed down, my grip is improving and my core seems to be tightening up. I am hoping that if I hit my goal in the dead, I will be able to come back to the swing and make much more rapid progress without having to worry about my wonky posterior or anterior chain or my TGU (which I'm hoping will be dialed in by the time I'm back to the swing).

Its also weirdly energizing to be doing the deadlift every day. I feel like a beast at the end of a workout.
 
It makes sense to me, but it makes more sense to consider yourself doing PttP with TGUs instead of SPs than doing S&S without the swings. (Given your current goals and this thread: When Changing a Program Is, and Isn't, OK)

Benedictine Monk said:
The only part I have to worry about is a waving pattern and what size of jumps.
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Also, now this problem goes away. Just do a regular cycle with 5lb jumps as per PttP, and if that stretches the cycle out too long switch to a wave with 10lb jumps or something similar.
 
kodo kb said:
It makes sense to me, but it makes more sense to consider yourself doing PttP with TGUs instead of SPs than doing S&S without the swings. (Given your current goals and this thread: When Changing a Program Is, and Isn't, OK)



Also, now this problem goes away. Just do a regular cycle with 5lb jumps as per PttP, and if that stretches the cycle out too long switch to a wave with 10lb jumps or something similar.
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Good catch. I suppose its a psychological coping mechanism. Good advice on jump versus wave. Thanks!
 
Get ups and deadlifts are a great pair, I also like the Zercher Lift paired with get ups. I do my get ups first because they are more technically demanding than the deadlift. I put a few sets each of Prying Goblet Squats, and Two Hand Swings in a quick warmup.

Using the same weight for all reps? No warmup reps? You hate weight changes during deadlifts?
 
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For now I'm at 135lbs including the bar and 16 kg for TGUs so my warmup is just the S&S warmups. That may change as I start increasing weight but I'm doing my 10 reps 5 days a week.
 
@Benedictine Monk- that sounds like a good and manageable program- don't be afraid to adjust it down some if needed to avoid issues with angry muscles, etc. Main thing is find some level you can do for your 5 days a week and feel good while doing it. It's not where you start out, but where you end up! If you feel a need to warm up before DL's, you might consider a set or two of 2-handed swings with the 16kg bell. That'd get the right muscles warmed up, but not worn out. I think you'll find most of the other issues will resolve or improve once you build some consistency at the right level.
 
What I have done in the past is s&s during the week (I work out of town and bring my bells with me) and do one or two pttp style workouts on the weekend in my home gym. Giving up deads doesn't sit well with me. I just enjoy doing it.
 
Steve Freides said:
I like this idea, too - I think of it as a early appearance of the S&S principle of ballistic swings as the first component of a session.

-S-
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My first exposure to kettlebells was while experimenting with a way to efficiently, and effectively activate the glutes for Weightlifting and Strength Training. I tried American Swings first, and quickly wrote those of. Then I implemented the Hardstyle Two Hand Swing, and not only did the hips become "snappier", but the hamstrings, torso, lats, triceps, upper back, lungs, and heart were all firing and working together.

Explosive exercises are proven to increase power output. Like Squat Jumps before Back Squats. Kneeling Squat Jumps before Olympic Lifts. Med Ball Slams or Clapping or Explosive Push-ups before bench. Swings before Deadlifts. You could also try supersetting. 3 heavy bench press+3 explosive push-ups, or 3 Heavy Back Squats+3 Weighted Box Jumps(not a box jump where you land in a squat, but land erect, I dislike that kind, to me it serves no purpose)

Then the Goblet Squat, and Get Up and I was hooked. I began to play again and felt reinvigorated about my training. The Get Up evolved into the Bent Press, which got me interested in Old Time, and Modern Strongman, and the rest is history.
 
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