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Kettlebell S&S intro and questions

wexford

wexford

Level 3 Valued Member
Hi all,

I'm 49. I suffered from frozen shoulder in my left shoulder April 2020 and basically it too my 1 year to get mobility back which I did with a lot of stretching and yoga at home. I started S&S last November. My first kettlebell was 12kg. That turned out to be too heavy to press for the TGUs so I decided to swallow some pride and get an 8kg. I've basically no gym history and have a desk job I'll let that be my excuse. I hadn't done any lifting since I attempted a little in university way back when. Anyway, 8kg got me started. I had to take some time off mid to late December as I pulled something in my back on my left side. Probably bad technique and lifting anything was painful. January, something clicked and I got my back back. Onwards.

My TGU and 1H swings are both currently at 16kg and I'm currently adding 20kg for 2 sets per side on both TGU and swings. So really happy with that. I can already see big differences in my upper body and am really happy where this is going. I'm pretty happy with my TGU form. I've watched a lot of videos and while I can always improve, I feel I'm on the right track and know what I need to work on. I also find the slow movements much easier to concentrate on and identify fixes than with the ballistics where everything moves so fast. Speaking of which, my TGUs normally take me around 1 minutes to complete. If I rush them I can do one in around 40s, but I guess I'm naturally a slow mover and sometimes they can even go over a minute.

I also train for the bike. I do 3 hard 1 hour sessions a week normally. If S&S is on the same day, I do bike in the morning and S&S in the late afternoon. Bike wise, I do 2 or 3 weeks on and then 1 week off where I go easier. My current S&S schedule is 2 days on, 1 day off where the 2 days are 1H swings. So basically not doing the 2H swings at all currently. The first day, I'm usually strong. The second day, I find harder but that's not always the case either. Anyway, weights are going up so maybe everything is fine, but my question is if I'm missing something regarding 2H swing day. Should I do 3 days on where 3rd day is 2H swing and then take the 4th day off or keep things as they are? What should I do for the TGU on that 3rd day if I do that? Down the weights to more of a practice session or keep them up as I'm still getting the rest day? I think rest days have become quite important since reaching late 40s but would like to hear opinions. I know the book encourages me to get the 2H swings in and even use the 2H day as the rest day.

Regarding the 1H swing. I'm still not happy with my form. I find I'm questioning myself a lot. I've watched countless videos on it. It's very hard to concentrate on everything at the speed it happens at and if I concentrate on one thing, the other ones break down. I think the main area is rotation and keeping shoulders down. I find that as I come up my swing arm shoulder is also up and I physically bring it down on top of the swing but I think it needs to be down all the time. I think that might be linked to my free arm going back too far when going down so since yesterday I've been trying to keep the free arm more forward so I can keep my body more square all the time. Does that sound right? So hard to piece it all together.

Looking forward to a good looking swing some day. Onwards and upwards.
 
Hi;

I am 49 as well and just started S&S a week ago. In my understanding of the book on 2H swings. You are doing them correctly. And again for TGU’s there is no waving as far as I see from the book so I do them as prescribed. When iy comes to your form question on swing. Let me throw my solution to my problems. My TGU is getting better everyday but due to left shoulder overhead mobility issue I have some difficulties. I tried swinging heavier KBs for a few sets and I could jump 24 kg instead of 16 kg. But my swing form is not great … so what I do is I decided to match my Swing wait with my weaker move TGU. This slows down my weight progress w Swings, which helps me working on my technique with a comfortable technique. Does it make sense? My solution to my Swing technique problem is, don’t progress the weight, until I own 16 kg swing, though from a strength perspective I could start putting 24 kg today…. Btw, the book recommends to stay a month for a month before starting progression… I guess my solution does not violate Pavel’s recommendation. Because he says, you might go slower, not extremely slow ofcourse … but having torn my menucus 3 months ago. I will never act like a highschool boy ever again and increase intensity in any exercise before my technique is clock on.
 
I kept my answer long. But let me be more clear to help you. Based on my injury experience. (Not from S&S), if your technique has problems with “twisting” , in any exercise this is a serious red flag. You are putting your joint in an extremely weak position because when an ankle tweaks, its only joint and tendons doing the protection but no muscle support. I did this in a one leg squat workout ( on top of a box) and pushed the limits towards technical failure to achieve Hyperthropy. Well I was successfully, I have reached the technical failure, and torn my menuscus at the last rep. If you are twisting in any move, its just a matter of time to have serious injury. If 24 kg, the 32 kg will catch you… stay safe!
 
@wexford, sounds like you are mostly on track and making good progress. Keep it up!

As for whether you are missing anything with 2H swings, that depends a lot on what your swing looks like. Would you be willing to link us a video for a form check?
 
@Anna C refers to your form @wexford. Her answer is obviously more informational and helpful than mine. I was referring to following the recommended 2H swing days of S&S book, when I was confirming your "way of approach", not your form.

@Anna C :) if I may... Can I also post my swing for a form advise from you? If it is not asking too much. I am new to the forum, and get excited about being able to get advice on form from a certified "Sinister".

Best;
 
Ege said:
@Anna C :) if I may... Can I also post my swing for a form advise from you? If it is not asking too much. I am new to the forum, and get excited about being able to get advice on form from a certified "Sinister".
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Absolutely. If you are willing, share here for group benefit. You'd be surprised how much learning opportunity there is from observing and imperfect swing and hearing what others see and advise. (And everyone has an imperfect swing! Except maybe Jeff Sokol. :) )
 
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I realise that it is hard to describe details precisely in English (even though it is my native language) and that a video is better. Thanks for offering this choice and putting it on the table. It might take me a few days to figure out how to record and upload my swing but I would greatly value any feedback. In today's swing practice, I was trying again to figure out what I was doing with my shoulder also. I'm trying hard to engage my lats but it's super hard to isolate them with everything going on. Anyway, I'll stop trying to describe it badly here. @Ege - I am pretty conscious that I'm playing with a lot (for me) of weight and I need to be careful and do my best to get good form. That's also part of why I am here.
 
Anna C said:
Absolutely. If you are willing, share here for group benefit. You'd be surprised how much learning opportunity there is from observing and imperfect swing and hearing what others see and advise. (And everyone has an imperfect swing! Except maybe Jeff Sokol. :) )
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@Anna C thanks a lot. I will post it next week, there are a few mistakes that I have, I want to polish them a bit, not because of embarrassment, this is a very welcoming community, but if I can polish the mistakes that I know, you will show me the ones that I don’t know. (btw, I will also take a session from an SFG instructor on Monday, will help me polish a bit further) And today, while I was looking to S&S book again, I have recognized that you are in the book! :) This is very exciting for me…
 
Anna C said:
Perhaps we should coin a new phrase:

"The perfect swing is a journey, not a destination."
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I like this :) and checked Jeff’s instagram… ehm, talking about polishing my technique is a bit underestimation, I need to first change the “mold” a few times… then work with an hammer… maybe a few years later I will use polish…
 
I took a video of my swing (finally). Thanks @Anna C for suggesting this. I am torn about whether or not to post it as I can see that it doesn't match standards but I guess that is also the point. Rather than say what I think is wrong, I'll post it and if you feel I can be saved, I would love some pointers on steps to take to fix things. The video shows the 16kg. For reference, I'm 186cm and 74kg.

 
Watched until 44 seconds in to the vid, so only comment on the right side.

For me it looks pretty decent, a little easy maybe, but I do have some pointers.
- your hike is towards the groin and should be the same point of contact as the two-arm swing. So outside forearm, inside leg. This will counter the rotation and make the movement more square.
- you lose tension on your lat, so in your hike, you van see the shoulder head comming up a bit and going down in the upward motion of the swing.

Probably, these two points are connected and improving the one will improve the other.
 
wexford said:
I took a video of my swing (finally). Thanks @Anna C for suggesting this. I am torn about whether or not to post it as I can see that it doesn't match standards but I guess that is also the point. Rather than say what I think is wrong, I'll post it and if you feel I can be saved, I would love some pointers on steps to take to fix things. The video shows the 16kg. For reference, I'm 186cm and 74kg.
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Remember to not let perfect be the enemy of good..

What we're aiming for initially is that you can execute safe movement and that which honors your structure..

Over time, you can then look for ways to move up to testing standard.

So far it's a good start.. a heavier bell may actually correct and make you sit deeper into your hinge and explode out of the downswing..
 
Mark Limbaga said:
So far it's a good start.. a heavier bell may actually correct and make you sit deeper into your hinge and explode out of the downswing..
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Exactly my thoughts! Looking good, keep it up @wexford

All the basics look good. Set-up, stance, grip, breathing, timing, hinge, shoulders, alignment... all good.
 
Tjerr said:
Watched until 44 seconds in to the vid, so only comment on the right side.

For me it looks pretty decent, a little easy maybe, but I do have some pointers.
- your hike is towards the groin and should be the same point of contact as the two-arm swing. So outside forearm, inside leg. This will counter the rotation and make the movement more square.
- you lose tension on your lat, so in your hike, you van see the shoulder head comming up a bit and going down in the upward motion of the swing.

Probably, these two points are connected and improving the one will improve the other.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your comments @Tjerr . I was away for 2 nights but I'll try keep an eye on where my point of contact is in today's practice and see what it does.
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Remember to not let perfect be the enemy of good..

What we're aiming for initially is that you can execute safe movement and that which honors your structure..

Over time, you can then look for ways to move up to testing standard.

So far it's a good start.. a heavier bell may actually correct and make you sit deeper into your hinge and explode out of the downswing..
Click to expand...
Thank you @Mark Limbaga for your comments. Looking at other videos folks go deeper and are more explosive indeed. I was surprised when I took the footage to see that I wasn't actually hinging very low. But I am excited to read your comment about "not letting perfect be the enemy of good". That's something I will strive to keep in mind.

I'm currently working with the 16kg and 20kg. I've another week of 4 sets of 20kg before I move to 6 sets. I find the 20kg a different beast. But I will get there just like I did with the 16. I will continue down this path much encouraged by the feedback thus far.
 
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