Kettlebell S&S Kettlebell Progression + Proper Swing and TGU Mechanics?

[Reventio007]

@Pavel Macek and others

My back is now hurting a little as I try to figure it out, and I have discovered that I have a few things misunderstood.

In order to clarify, can you guys please shed light on:

1. The swing has four parts/steps, namely
a. Hike
b. Upswing/Hip Extension
c. Vertical Plank
d. Downswing
Is this correct?

Q: when do I contract, when do i relax?
What muscles do I relax/contract, and at which steps?

2. How tense at the full hip extension should the glutes be? Maximally tensing it causes the pelvis to be tilted towards 5-4 oclock... Or the pelvis gets closer to the navel(as I've read somewhere i forgot)?? Is that the correct hip extension for the swing?? Or maximally contracting the glutes, but the pelvis should just be at vertical/6 oclock?? I've seen at the video above that the glutes must contract, but the abs must also counteract the "punch" to prevent leaning back.
How do I fix this part? As I feel that once I got conscious of this step... My back feels like it turns into a small C instead of a complete vertical plank or stand tall.

3. In all the sfg videos, the person who swings will always have a forward and backward movement of the knees, but the literature advises against the knees moving? What to do about this?

Edit: I do feel the need to be extremely conscious of the "forearm to ribs" before hinging. I think this breaks my form.

Thank you guys.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

moderately braced at the hike pass
relaxed during the float
braced at the lockout
slightly braced as you anticipate catching the bell for the downswing (think breathe behind the shield)

if you feel your lower back more it means you are

1. using your lower back to drive the movement vs using the hips

2. leaning back excessively and not standing tall at the lockout

3. breaking the hips early when catching the bell in the hike pass..

my humble 2 cents.. if you have already watched so many videos of the swing but still feel stuck, perhaps its time you paid a visit to an SFG for a hands-on session..

personally, everytime I get to have another SFG watch my technique, I learn something new

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Some to look for on Instagram: sokolstrong, liftwithhollyandarryn, coachalexei, girevik777, noahmarek2, jodybeasley, _coach_jake, _coach_karen_, haraldmotz, icebox_kettlebell, strongmobility, the_strong_yogi, zachhenderson_, pavelmacekom, hmg_fitness, sousastrong, strongashec, evolution_strength_performance, kettlebell_qatar

Thanks for this!

 

[Anna C]

Instagram: sokolstrong, liftwithhollyandarryn, coachalexei, girevik777, noahmarek2, jodybeasley, _coach_jake, _coach_karen_, haraldmotz, icebox_kettlebell, strongmobility, the_strong_yogi, zachhenderson_, pavelmacekom, hmg_fitness, sousastrong, strongashec, evolution_strength_performance, kettlebell_qatar

Just to add a few more Instagram accounts: @ hardstyle_method, arisdemarco, king_cobra_fit, erly_g25, amydaylarson, ryan_s_toshner, roguewolftraining, tracyhcook, brettjonessfg, catbuckle, justkettlebells, max_levelfitness, drmichaelhartle, mira_beezz, kettlebeast, eorihuela, lunki13, virtubelfast, erickadarst, gorillagirevik, aphill4305, achievefitnessboston, rhinostrength

I have a bunch of barbell ones too but those are the kettlebell-centric favorites.

Personally I perfer instagram accounts that focus on training and leave out the personal photos... That other stuff is for FB, IMO.

Mine is @annacannington if anyone wants to follow me.

 

[Reventio007]

moderately braced at the hike pass
relaxed during the float
braced at the lockout
slightly braced as you anticipate catching the bell for the downswing (think breathe behind the shield)

if you feel your lower back more it means you are

1. using your lower back to drive the movement vs using the hips

2. leaning back excessively and not standing tall at the lockout

3. breaking the hips early when catching the bell in the hike pass..

my humble 2 cents.. if you have already watched so many videos of the swing but still feel stuck, perhaps its time you paid a visit to an SFG for a hands-on session..

personally, everytime I get to have another SFG watch my technique, I learn something new

1. moderately braced at the hike pass
-Hike pass is the hip hinge right?

2.What about the hip snap? There is this one website saying that the more aggressive the snap, the better. While the other guy from above says to smoothen the snap so as to prevent shaking? What is the correct one?

3. relaxed during the float, braced at the lockout
-What comes first? The float or the lockout? Since you wrote it in that order..

4. slightly braced asyou anticipate catching the bell for the downswing (think breathe behind the shield)
- by saying to brace at the lockout, then to "slightly brace for the downswing", am I right to understand that there is a relaxation phase in between that?

Or throughout the swing, the core/abs never lose the bracing(breathe behind the shield), even though in the sns book, they said that the swing has this contract-relax-contract sequence, much like in a punch? What muscles use the c-r-c sequence??

I wish I could just pay you to instruct me, but my allowance does not allow maybe in the near future!

 

[Reventio007]

Maybe if I just focused on:

-Hike pass the bell to 8oclock
-Let bell float after the lockout? Or before the lockout? (What does the lockout mean by the way? Full hip extension/hip snap? OR the vertical plank?)
-Wait for forearms to hit ribs before hinging the hips back and the bell to 8oclock


.....
Maybe my problem is I don't know what to do in order to make the bell float... Or how to do it smoothly and still make the bell float.

I just did some reps trying out the 50% effort you suggested awhile ago... I was going through the motion, but the bell does not float? It just follows?
...how can I make the bell float or develop power if the swing is done smoothly

 

[Reventio007]

I tried it again, attempting a 50% effort swing, but this time keeping my core braced throughout all the steps of the swing.... And it turns out, the bell will float on its own because of inertia..?

I noticed that my knees go outside on some parts of the swing, so I took a wider stance. It stopped happening.


Will try power breathing with the 50% effort swing and see how it goes... See if some form of power starts getting practiced.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

1. moderately braced at the hike pass
-Hike pass is the hip hinge right?

2.What about the hip snap? There is this one website saying that the more aggressive the snap, the better. While the other guy from above says to smoothen the snap so as to prevent shaking? What is the correct one?

3. relaxed during the float, braced at the lockout
-What comes first? The float or the lockout? Since you wrote it in that order..

4. slightly braced asyou anticipate catching the bell for the downswing (think breathe behind the shield)
- by saying to brace at the lockout, then to "slightly brace for the downswing", am I right to understand that there is a relaxation phase in between that?

Or throughout the swing, the core/abs never lose the bracing(breathe behind the shield), even though in the sns book, they said that the swing has this contract-relax-contract sequence, much like in a punch? What muscles use the c-r-c sequence??

I wish I could just pay you to instruct me, but my allowance does not allow maybe in the near future!

1 yes

2. Aggressive but not at the expense of quality

3. If you're a student, message me again, I give consideration for students in terms of rate

 

[Steve Freides]

Q: when do I contract, when do i relax?
What muscles do I relax/contract, and at which steps?

You are standing sideways in front of me, facing to my right. I am imagining the face of a clock. Your head is a 12:00 and your feet at at 6:00. The bell is on the floor a little in front of you.

1. Swing the bell back to 7 o'clock.

2. As soon as it gets there, stand up explosively - remember how tall you were before you started the exercise, and reach your full height again. Imagine we put a board on top of your head before you started and were able to make it stay right there while you bent down to swing the bell. Make your head touch that board again.

3. Doing #2 will make the bell swing out in front of you. Let it float to about horizontal, about 4 or 3 o'clock. You will reach standing before the bell reaches horizontal - let it float.

4. Let the bell float down to just before your arm would make contact with your upper thigh - call it almost 6 o'clock, or 5:30.

5. Quickly move your hips back to the same position, 7 o'clock, as the previous swing.

Repeat all the steps above.

There are really just 4 steps: bell to 7 o'clock, hip snap to stand up, bell float to horizontal, bell float to where arm almost touches leg. 7 to 5 is hip snap, 5 to 3 is float, 3 to 5 is float, 5 to 7 is load hips for next swing.

Through all of this, you brace your midsection with your inhaled breath so that as the bell swings back, your hips load up but you don't let your back bend. Then you exhale as you stand up - here is where you find your plank position. Get into the plank but don't stay maximally tensed while the bell float, just tight enough to maintain the plank, and as the bell swings back towards you, inhale and brace in preparation for the next swing.

Does this help?

-S-

 

[Reventio007]

You are standing sideways in front of me, facing to my right. I am imagining the face of a clock. Your head is a 12:00 and your feet at at 6:00. The bell is on the floor a little in front of you.



1. Swing the bell back to 7 o'clock.



2. As soon as it gets there, stand up explosively - remember how tall you were before you started the exercise, and reach your full height again. Imagine we put a board on top of your head before you started and were able to make it stay right there while you bent down to swing the bell. Make your head touch that board again.



3. Doing #2 will make the bell swing out in front of you. Let it float to about horizontal, about 4 or 3 o'clock. You will reach standing before the bell reaches horizontal - let it float.



4. Let the bell float down to just before your arm would make contact with your upper thigh - call it almost 6 o'clock, or 5:30.



5. Quickly move your hips back to the same position, 7 o'clock, as the previous swing.



Repeat all the steps above.



There are really just 4 steps: bell to 7 o'clock, hip snap to stand up, bell float to horizontal, bell float to where arm almost touches leg. 7 to 5 is hip snap, 5 to 3 is float, 3 to 5 is float, 5 to 7 is load hips for next swing.



Through all of this, you brace your midsection with your inhaled breath so that as the bell swings back, your hips load up but you don't let your back bend. Then you exhale as you stand up - here is where you find your plank position. Get into the plank but don't stay maximally tensed while the bell float, just tight enough to maintain the plank, and as the bell swings back towards you, inhale and brace in preparation for the next swing.



Does this help?



-S-

Hi,



Thanks for this.



I was able to visualize this perfectly per your instruction, but I still have two questions.



1. Can you tell me more about the characteristics of the hip snap according to the Hardstyle Swing technique??



Like in my video, I do the snap, but it ends up shaking...



Then there's this one time where i tried really cramping my glutes, leading to my pelvis reaching 5 oclock(instead of just 6pm??) in an explosive manner, leading the bell to float, but I felt some weird lower back dull pain. This is accompanied by power breathing:



Then there's also this one where I don't snap at all, just letting the bell float through hip hinge momentum:



There's also this one that looks like a stable version:



What is more correct?



2. If I don't maximally tense(as the first guy said) at the top/plank position, when do I maximally tense my glutes and core? When do I maximally tense everything?



Thanks, you're a big help!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Here's something to keep in mind since there were a few really good reps you got especially in the second vid..

Speed must be an expression of power and control, not a mask of lack of control.

Don't worry about "maximal" remember that in S and S, it was mentioned that most produce their best swings at 70-80% power.

Try to exhale right as you snap the hips, not at lockout, you'll be surprised at the stability and power output

 

[Steve Freides]

Thanks for this.

You're welcome.

I was able to visualize this perfectly per your instruction, but I still have two questions.

Each of the three videos is different. I have a few comments, and in no particular order.

First, all your swings are good. They're not perfect, and they're not as good as they can be, which is to say they're not as good as I'm sure they _will_ be, but they are all safe, and I think practicing any of them would bring you a positive result.

In your first video, you never quite straighten up. Please look up "strongfirst plank" or "hardstyle plank" - that is what we're looking for at the top of the swing. From my previous message to you.

Get into the plank but don't stay maximally tensed while the bell floats, just tight enough to maintain the plank,

It was very interesting to me to see that you were straighter at the top of your swing in your second video, the one you're calling Relaxed. That's closer, overall, to what you want to do.

Your third video is the best one by far but there are two form flaws you will want to fix.

• Before you start swinging, you pantomime the motion and, for the most part, this is very good, but when you get to around the 58-second mark of your video, you get too low for one or two reps, with your back very close to parallel to the floor. Your hips should go backwards at more or less a 45-degree angle so that, at their backmost point, your hips will still be higher than your knees and lower than your shoulder. You had gotten your shoulders too low for that rep or two.
• 
  
• As you do the actual swings, watch the position of your hips - they don't move backwards and down as much as we would like. That means you're accomplishing the work mostly with hamstrings and not with glutes. You want to get closer to the position you showed when pantomiming the movement in your third video, with the focus being on what I call "getting into your hips" - you want to think that the hip hinge is both back and down, and that you want to load up your hips by moving them back and down rather than pivoting around the hip joint, which stretches and loads the hamstrings but doesn't put as much load on the hips.

You might try what we call "dead stop" swings. Load up, do a single swing - swing back, stand up, then stop. (The bell will swing back and you will park it on the ground at your starting position.) This can be helpful because you will practice really getting into your hips this way. Transition to multiple swings gradually to keep a lot of what you felt in the dead stop swing.

You are off to a very good start and I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say we look forward to your continued progress.

Speed must be an expression of power and control, not a mask of lack of control.

Love this quote, Mark.

-S-

 

[Anna C]

Those are great swings!

+1 to @Mark Limbaga's comments... always on point. Great comments from @Steve Freides also

Fine tuning suggestions:

1) resist the forward fold just a bit -- your torso is coming close to horizontal. (as Steve noted)
2) your knees look a bit soft in your plank. Contract the quads (pull the kneecaps up) and hold that contraction when you're in the standing plank.

Keep up the good work! You've definitely got the right idea for the hardstyle swing.

 

[Steve Freides]

moderately braced at the hike pass
relaxed during the float
braced at the lockout
slightly braced as you anticipate catching the bell for the downswing (think breathe behind the shield)

if you feel your lower back more it means you are

1. using your lower back to drive the movement vs using the hips

2. leaning back excessively and not standing tall at the lockout

3. breaking the hips early when catching the bell in the hike pass..

my humble 2 cents.. if you have already watched so many videos of the swing but still feel stuck, perhaps its time you paid a visit to an SFG for a hands-on session..

personally, everytime I get to have another SFG watch my technique, I learn something new

@Mark Limbaga, I would add one more thing to your list, and this is the thing that can cause me lower back discomfort.

4. Brace hard as you inhale so that your lower back doesn't move as the bell reaches its backmost point and keep that brace as you explode the bell forward and yourself up. You don't need the strong brace as the bell floats, but you do need it both to catch the bell and to then propel it in the opposite direction.

-S-

 

[Reventio007]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Going to the gym, I will focus on doing:

1. Dead Swings. Do at 60-75% power.
2. Core brace at catch and snap, relax at the float("the only time you rest is when the dirt is in the air, so throw higher/farther!" as the russian quote says.
3. Quad contraction at the rkc plank.
4. Keep torso from going horizontal at the hike. Push the glutes back instead.

Here's how I understand the swing at the moment, hope it's correct:

Hike while bracing>snap while bracing>brace harder(?) to stabilize the snap, contract the quads>relax a little at the float(?)>brace to catch the fall>repeat

Question:
When does the plank happen? Before or at the top of the float?
-my current understanding is it happens after the hip snap, before the bell floats.

Thanks guys

 

[Anna C]

Question:
When does the plank happen? Before or at the top of the float?
-my current understanding is it happens after the hip snap, before the bell floats.

Correct, before the float. Just like a jump, hips and knees extend, quads and glutes and abs are contracted, arriving at a straight vertical plank as the bell is ascending (it is the movement of the body to the plank that gives the bell its upward/forward momentum)... holding the plank as the bell finishes ascent and starts to descend... when arms reconnect to ribcage and bell is about halfway down (bascially waiting as long as possible), then quickly move to hinge as the bell is finishing downward movement to the 8:00 position.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

a quick question @Reventio007 are you aware of the chop and pop drill?

the shadowing you do is a good drill, the chop and pop drill is slightly better as it has the details you need to work on..

Although I am quite confident that a hands-on session or two will expedite your learning process

I have read a ton of ketlebell material prior to joining the ranks as they say but when I got to do a hands on session with my first formal teacher, I was able to plug the holes in my movement and they got better