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Kettlebell S&S 'maintenance frequency'

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Chrisdavisjr

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I recently acquired a barbell and am taking my first steps towards PTTP, however I want to ensure that I can at least maintain the conditioning I built on S&S. My current plan is to practise the PTTP lifts (deadlifts and floor presses, in my case) up to four times a week and do S&S twice a week.

Is S&S twice a week sufficient to maintain my current level of conditioning (I can hit the Simple standard and can perform multiple sets of swings and get-ups with a 40kg/88lb bell) or should I be doing more (running, jumping rope etc.)?
 
Speaking from personal experience: I maintain my conditioning very good. I don't even have to do any conditioning to maintain my current level.
But as a general minimal effective dose I'd say 100 swings or high pulls 2x/week.
 
Personally, depending on how much pressing you'll be doing, I'd just do swings on off days.

A lot of pressing, even bench pressing, along with get ups is tough on the shoulders. Your experience may vary.
 
I suspect that 2x a week is enough to maintain the strength, but not the conditioning, if that makes any sense (maybe not).

I've been doing 2x a week for a while, and it's been good maintenance. I feel like I can do the Simple standard whenever I want, but primarily because the 32 feels light now, not because I'm particularly well conditioned.

But that said, maybe the answer would be different if you treated it more like a conditioning session. Let PTTP be the strength work, drop the S&S weight a little and keep the rest intervals low.
 
Thanks, all! I reckon twice a week will be just the ticket. I'll keep my get-ups at 32kg as 40kg get-upstand heavy presses is a recipe for unhappy shoulders and wrists. I'll keep 40kg swings in for now and see how I get on.
 
@Chrisdavisjr you can get stronger just doing 4-6 heavy get ups. 2-3 ea side. You could see how that works for you rather than 10@32. Or mix it up, your first S&S workout of the week do 4-6 heavy and your second workout do 10 at 32 or 28K.

Or just use get ups in your warm up before PTTP session. One heavy each side. Just an option...
 
All good options.

@Kozushi mixes s+s with low volume DLs an says that heavy DLs will help with s+s.

Or you could do a Dan John type warmup with swings getups and goblet squats.
 
Personally I’d say do pttp on it’s own for 2 maybe even 4 weeks, then swap back to s&s for 2/4 weeks. You’ll be surprised how much conditioning you’ll maintain through the pttp & what little you might lose returns practically immediately once commencing s&s again.
Both great programs give them attention they deserve. JMO.
 
I've been doing 2x a week for a while, and it's been good maintenance. I feel like I can do the Simple standard whenever I want, but primarily because the 32 feels light now, not because I'm particularly well conditioned.
It is interesting that you discriminate the two in this way - that you can do the Simple standard either because the weight is light or because you are well conditioned. I think it cannot be seperated. As you get stronger, you improve your work capacity with weights that are lighter.
 
At the risk of starting more passionate discussion...
I believe we don't necessarily have a universally agreed upon definition of what 'conditioning' means.
Personally when I hear the term conditioning, my first reaction is "conditioning for what?"
I think this is a really good point. Since we're talking in the context of S&S, then my take is if a goal is not stated then we're talking about S&S conditioning/work capacity. Since S&S is a GPP program, this implies a general base level of work capacity that is applicable to wide variety of physical activities. Think about the "WTH" effect that is often reported after reaching Simple.

I have read elsewhere on the S1 forum that folks who have done PTTP cycles have noticed their work capacity go down for general activities of living . I'm guessing @Chrisdavisjr has read this as well.
 
@Chrisdavisjr why would you want to keep your conditioning by doing swings, if you will already be doing so many deadlifts? I would rather go running at a slow pace 30 minutes 3 times per week or so.

By the way, I dont remember PTTP mentioning anything about conditioning, but it appears to go well with 3/week sessions of LSD right?
 
By the way, I dont remember PTTP mentioning anything about conditioning, but it appears to go well with 3/week sessions of LSD right?
A couple 30 min sessions of easy rowing or skipping rope (no concrete please!) comes to mind.

@Chrisdavisjr, what are you thinking of when you say conditioning? General/base level sort of stuff or the actual ability to perform the Simple standard, or..?
 
To me conditioning means being able to work against resistance without my heart racing so much that I need to stop too soon.

Because of how my mind works it's been annoying for me to have to choose among several excellent programs developed by Strong First. Each has its strengths and none have any real weaknesses that I can find (except for maybe Naked Warrior with no pull).

The idea of keeping active for a prolonged period of time like in S&S or ROP makes me think "heart health" and "endurance" which are very important qualities in life. But you can get the same with other exercises like deadlifts and squats etc. The question for me comes more down to that of weight and two versus one arm engagement. Evidently asymmetrical exercises have their benefits, but if you're holding more weight total by engaging both arms, you're making your whole body as a totality stronger. But I find I have to use lighter kettlebells if engaging both arms at once, which pushes me back to asymmetrical exercises again!

Gauging my judo strength during different kinds of exercise programs I'd say the asymmetrical exercises make me more agile under pressure and the symmetrical ones make me more strong. I think they both matter. Putting maximum weight on myself using both arms lets me develop the greatest combined physical strength possible, but in reality while moving, I'm in asymmetrical positions since anything resembling locomotion involves asymmetrical positioning. Both kinds of strength count.

So, I think a strong asymmetrical program like S&S is important, but supplementing it with symmetrical moves like the deadlift and/or kettlebell doubles work makes it better.
 
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It seems like twice a week work well for maintenance for just about everything. In some cases, even just once might work. Why not try super light S&S twice a week for the first couple weeks while learn how PTTP feels, then go heavier if you feel like it?
 
A couple 30 min sessions of easy rowing or skipping rope (no concrete please!) comes to mind.

@Chrisdavisjr, what are you thinking of when you say conditioning? General/base level sort of stuff or the actual ability to perform the Simple standard, or..?

I use the word 'conditioning' out of laziness as an umbrella term to encompass the various skills and physical qualities I've attained thus far through regular kettlebell training. Maintaining my ability to hit the 'Simple' standard would be a satisfactory 'yardstick' by which to measure my conditioning.
 
To me conditioning means being able to work against resistance without my heart racing so much that I need to stop too soon.

Because of how my mind works it's been annoying for me to have to choose among several excellent programs developed by Strong First. Each has its strengths and none have any real weaknesses that I can find (except for maybe Naked Warrior with no pull).

The idea of keeping active for a prolonged period of time like in S&S or ROP makes me think "heart health" and "endurance" which are very important qualities in life. But you can get the same with other exercises like deadlifts and squats etc. The question for me comes more down to that of weight and two versus one arm engagement. Evidently asymmetrical exercises have their benefits, but if you're holding more weight total by engaging both arms, you're making your whole body as a totality stronger. But I find I have to use lighter kettlebells if engaging both arms at once, which pushes me back to asymmetrical exercises again!

Gauging my judo strength during different kinds of exercise programs I'd say the asymmetrical exercises make me more agile under pressure and the symmetrical ones make me more strong. I think they both matter. Putting maximum weight on myself using both arms lets me develop the greatest combined physical strength possible, but in reality while moving, I'm in asymmetrical positions since anything resembling locomotion involves asymmetrical positioning. Both kinds of strength count.

So, I think a strong asymmetrical program like S&S is important, but supplementing it with symmetrical moves like the deadlift and/or kettlebell doubles work makes it better.

Thanks for the suggestions. In the context of Judo, I can see the importance of dynamic, asymmetrical movements. For me, my main concern is increasing my ability to move more weight with a view to, eventually perhaps, competitive powerlifting. As such, S&S would serve as a supplementary routine to ensure that I can maintain a healthy body composition and a degree of cardiovascular fitness, along with joint health and the various other benefits of regular kettlebell work: I want to lift heavy but also stay light, lean and springy. Ultimately, this is something of a compromise as I'm sure I could move more weight if I was considerably larger myself but I've never been one to take the easy route.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. In the context of Judo, I can see the importance of dynamic, asymmetrical movements. For me, my main concern is increasing my ability to move more weight with a view to, eventually perhaps, competitive powerlifting. As such, S&S would serve as a supplementary routine to ensure that I can maintain a healthy body composition and a degree of cardiovascular fitness, along with joint health and the various other benefits of regular kettlebell work: I want to lift heavy but also stay light, lean and springy. Ultimately, this is something of a compromise as I'm sure I could move more weight if I was considerably larger myself but I've never been one to take the easy route.
S&S is also simply put an interesting adventure in and of itself.

I don't do S&S for judo, I do it for its own benefits exactly as you describe above. It is a very interesting activity for health, strength, and athleticism.

If I were interested in sacrificing my life for judo, I'd be following something else for my weight lifting, and a lot of my solo training would be to drill judo moves, which isn't healthy as they're quite awkward!
 
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