S&S + Minimalist Deadlifts

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by SuperGirevik, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. SuperGirevik

    SuperGirevik More than 300 posts

    I just read Pavel's new article, "Q&D + Minimalist Deadlifts" (link) and I was wondering if it was possible to do something similar with S&S and deadlifts.

    I recently completed a 8-week deadlifts singles program before restarting S&S and achieved a 1RM of 425lbs. I'm really enjoying doing my daily S&S but I'm a little worried that I will loose some strength on my DL by not performing the lift. How would you recommend combining S&S with deadlifts in order to maintain or even increase my DL strength?

    I’d like to continue doing S&S daily if possible :)
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  2. mikhael

    mikhael Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    That's impressive achievement. What was your basic RM before? I was doing PTTP for 3 weeks and went from 5x220 to 5x260lbs and I would like to continue this program with additional Q&D sessions, but don't know if it won't be to taxing.
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  3. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Interesting question. I am still working my way up S&S but in the future I would like to explore a combination with DLs.

    Maybe once or twice per week reduce the swing volume to 40 reps and do your minimalist DLs then. You could probably skip TGU on that day.

    Some folks have reported that the Daily Dose Deadlift Plan works well with S&S.

    The other way round, did you maintain your ballistic condition while following your DL plan?
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  4. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Daily Dose and S&S paired well for me.

    The plan in the Q&D+Deadlifts article is 2-3 times in 2 weeks (on average), sort of a condensed DDDL “cycle” (6 days @ 75% + 1 heavier day, training 5 days on / 2 days off) into one session. I think it (Q&D+DL) is best for someone looking to maintain raw absolute strength; DDDL may have the edge for a newbie, as it’s lots of practice (~88% of the lifts by my calculation) with a moderately heavy weight (75%).
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  5. SuperGirevik

    SuperGirevik More than 300 posts

    My previous 1RM was 405lbs and the program I did revolved around singles only. So I really don't know what my 5RM was before or what it is now.

    I only did deadlift singles 5x per week (Monday-Friday). Maybe some occasional chin-ups or push-ups. However on my deload week, I did do some swings.

    My ballistic conditioning was rather poor prior to doing the DL program. So there wasn’t much to maintain.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  6. SuperGirevik

    SuperGirevik More than 300 posts

    Were you able to do S&S daily when paired with Daily Dose?
  7. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    No, I was doing it 3-4 days a week, I never did it daily. And, I’ll admit DDDL took my eye off the Simple ball a bit - took longer to get there than if I didn’t get distracted by the bar.
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  8. SuperGirevik

    SuperGirevik More than 300 posts

    @Sean M, I wonder if doing deadlifts 1-2x per week at 3x5 would work.
  9. miked

    miked Double-Digit Post Count

    I just started Q&D a few weeks ago, but in general my training has been very Q&D-like for a couple of years. Once a week I do 6x1 at 405 (mainly because I’m lazy and don’t want to get any other plates out). Last night, I was feeling good and I pulled 450 with no problem. My all time max is 465, but I’m a master now, so I’ll probably never get that again. Regardless, a Q&D-like program plus once a week deadlifts works great for me. I usually do 1-2 test days a year when I’m feeling strong, plus 2 days a year at the TSC. I haven’t seen any loss in strength.
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  10. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    In ETK Pavel mentions the option of doing PTTP 2x per week on ROP's variety days. So maybe 3-4x/week S&S + 2x/week PTTP would work, too.
  11. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    S&S is fine and all, but if you want to get strong and have barbell, a mini S&S (50 swings, 2-3 getups) is a fine warmup to real strength work. Maybe an unpopular opinion around here, but I got much stronger faster with barbell work than S&S. I think we can fixate on the Simple goal a little too much...
  12. Robert J Garon II

    Robert J Garon II First Timer

    I see several of you guys talk a lot about a deadlift singles program, but where might I find that so I could see exactly how the program is structured, frequency, and how many sets to do?
    Does it have a weight progression as well that compounds or do we determine that on our own? EXAMPLE week 1 we work with 75% of our one-rep max and then week 2 80% or something along those lines
  13. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Daily Dose Deadlift Plan | StrongFirst
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  14. SuperGirevik

    SuperGirevik More than 300 posts

    I'd argue that it's borderline factual that barbells will get someone stronger faster. My main goal with doing S&S again is to improve my conditioning. I've gained some weight and I can tell that after a few sets of swings, my heart rate is quite high. In fact, doing 10 swings EMOM @ 24kgs (light for me) is challenging.

    @Robert J Garon II , I followed this program: Deadlift Singles Success Story: A Fitness article
  15. Kozushi

    Kozushi More than 2500 posts

    No, I don't disagree with you. I personally want to do the full S&S routine even if less often as I think the endurance/conditioning gains are the main thing gotten through the program, but in any case I don't disagree at all that "real strength work" is with heavier weights like the 425lbs barbell deadlift pointed out above. I think both are important. A strong deadlifter without endurance or mobility isn't so good, whereas a weaker individual but who has good endurance and mobility under stress like an S&Ser or a judoka is a healthier all-round athlete, as I see things. However, max strength does matter a lot, and I think the deadlift is perhaps "the most important" strength move in existence. Kettlebell swings are a kind of endurance-strength take on the deadlift's "big pull" strength chain development.
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  16. HUNTER1313

    HUNTER1313 More than 500 posts

    I have to agree with the daily dose program. It's easily adaptable and not ball busting.
    It was mentioned to me though that doing the same thing everyday isn't a good thing, but I guess that's where it says to vary your deadlift. Shouldn't we do some presses to to help balance out the pulls or is the tgu enough?
  17. SuperGirevik

    SuperGirevik More than 300 posts

    I agree that both things are important to a degree. Not everyone has to be "500lbs deadlift" strong but everyone should be strong. As for conditioning, Brett McKay (for the Art of Manliness) was following the Starting Strength program and made some serious strength gains but suffered in the conditioning department...
    Source: The Best Fitness Programs for Your Health & Wellness Goals | The Art of Manliness

    While I want to be strong, I also want that strength to last.
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  18. HUNTER1313

    HUNTER1313 More than 500 posts

    After a long day at work, is there any point in taking a pre workout before doing DDD? I'm working a little closer to home now, but it's still late before I can do DDD. I still have a labour job digging holes, hauling pipe, etc. I am just curious if DDD is too short in duration to warrant a little pick me up.
  19. william bad butt

    william bad butt More than 300 posts

    My preworkout:
    -cliff bar right before I train (I love peanut butter chocolate chip)
    - During training, I drink a BCAA drink with water and orange gatoraide. I like to mix them.
    -Immediately after training, a big glass of whole chocolate milk.

  20. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @HUNTER1313 I would think not. A regular day of DDDL takes ~10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes on the heaviest days if doing 5 sets and taking 5 minutes rest between each lift.

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