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Kettlebell S&S - Muscle Failure on TGU, bail on the set?

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MajorTom76

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I started to get into the rhythm of the Simple program and I’m now using the recommended start weights according to Simple and Sinister. However my Turkish get up on the left side is a little weak, to the point I scared myself once or twice. Tonight I was only able to do 4 reps with 35 lbs.

Should I bail the entire set and try again tomorrow? Or should I lighten my weight by 10 pounds (next lower weight I have) And finish the set?

What should I do with the set when my muscles fail?
 
I would strongly encourage you to avoid getting anywhere near to muscle failure in a TGU. Call it a day and do naked (ie unweighted get-ups) for a couple days. Then return to your prior lower weight and build up slower. Just my 2 cents. A failed TGU can set you back a long way.
 
+1 to the above. Do a week or 2 with the lighter bell. I found the "magic" (torture) of the 3 minute getup somewhere in Strongfirst literature, where you take 3 minutes to do a single getup. If that doesn't show you where you aren't applying enough tension for the heavier weights, nothing will.

I'd also highly recommend seeing an SFG or posting a video on here for review. Not sure where you are, but after 2 sessions with an SFG I realise I could be miles in front of where I am now.
 
lais817 said:
+1 to the above. Do a week or 2 with the lighter bell. I found the "magic" (torture) of the 3 minute getup somewhere in Strongfirst literature, where you take 3 minutes to do a single getup. If that doesn't show you where you aren't applying enough tension for the heavier weights, nothing will.

I'd also highly recommend seeing an SFG or posting a video on here for review. Not sure where you are, but after 2 sessions with an SFG I realise I could be miles in front of where I am now.
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Thanks y’all, I’ll bail and lighten the load for awhile. This 3 minute get up sounds really interesting. I’ll give it a shot and set a timer when I take a stab at 25 lbs.

I did send an email to an SFG in my area. I’m willing to do a few sessions just to jump start with correct form. The book is great but it’s hard to translate into action without constantly revisiting it.
 
I have a similar challenge this week as I'm stepping up from 12kg TGU to 16kg TGU. I bailed on the set earlier this week when I was not strong enough. my current approach...which is the same that I used when practicing with the 12kg is:
- I started by doing 5 sets of 1+1 (left+right) half getups stopping at the point *before* I get up on my knee
- the next session was 5 sets of 1+1 getting up to 1 knee like the bottom lunge position (did this last night).
- I do goblet lunges/squats as a separate set to practice getting up/down from my knee. I expect to do lunges with the bell in the Press position tomorrow.
- then hope to get to full TGU in a couple of days. I say this because I feel strong in each *separate* activity. I just need to take the time to conscientiously string them together into a slow single movement.
 
thomasnield said:
I started to get into the rhythm of the Simple program and I’m now using the recommended start weights according to Simple and Sinister. However my Turkish get up on the left side is a little weak, to the point I scared myself once or twice. Tonight I was only able to do 4 reps with 35 lbs.

Should I bail the entire set and try again tomorrow? Or should I lighten my weight by 10 pounds (next lower weight I have) And finish the set?

What should I do with the set when my muscles fail?
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If you got 4 @ 35lbs, then knock out the rest with your 25lb bell, and over time try and do 1 more @ 35lbs. The recommendation in the revised S&S book is to add 1 rep on each side per month with the next heavier weight. This keeps your getups at 10 every day, but gradually you're working in that heavier bell. So month 1 would be all 10 at medium weight, month 2 you'd do 8 @ medium and 2 @ heavy, etc.

This recent video shows a couple different ways to keep progressing.
 
I went through a similar issue not so long ago. Going to a lower weight was the key. And I would not progress any faster than the S&S 2.0 schedule. But my experience was, and continues to be, that owning the weight is the signal to increase the weight, however long that may take. And that holds true for every step on the ladder. I hope this helps. It is much clearer in my mind than on the page.
 
Benjamin Renaud said:
Also, make sure you take enough rest between your TGUs.
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for pure strength development, it is next to impossible to take too much rest, and all too common to take too little.

I will say - that I had trouble getting into the Turkish getup with the 24kg bell and had some discomfort with it. so I spent some time doing sporadic sets of 5 kettlebell presses with the 16kg bell, throughout the week. for me, this seemed to help with stability in a single rep of the getup with the 24kg.
 
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I'm more cautious with TGU on the weight-fatigue envelope than I am on any other lift except the bench press.

I'm far more comfortable with a dodgy 100 kg jerk over my head than I am with a wobbly 32 kg TGU.
 
I know they are not inherently as "dangerous" as a dodgy get up could be, but I am taking a similar approach to training deadlifts and squats. Very gradual weight increases and looking for the weight to feel "easy or confident" before I add to it.

When I jumped (and I mean jumped) from the a 16kg to a 24kg, anytime I felt like a getup was anywhere near approaching my fatigue limit, I called it good for the day with the 24kg. Sometimes I would fill out the remaining 5/5 reps with the 16kg, sometimes I just called it good. The nice thing about a higher frequency program like S&S is that if you have to take a step "back" one day, there's not much lost because you're doing the same session again the next day (assuming you're doing 5 days per week). What this amounts to is that volume over time does the work for you; you're not trying to cram volume into less sessions to make the same or faster progress. In other words, if you're doing the same thing the next day, there's no rush. You're just going to be doing it day in, day out anyhow. I hope that makes sense.

+1 to:
-owning the weight before really jumping into the next weight up
-taking longer rests. If you have the time/patience for it, rest 3-5 minutes between get ups on the same side. Only compress rests when you know it feels safe. If you're unsure that it's safe to do another rep, it's not :) *
-if you don't want to drop reps or take long rests, just do as others have suggested and reduce the weight for your remaining reps
 
thomasnield said:
I started to get into the rhythm of the Simple program and I’m now using the recommended start weights according to Simple and Sinister. However my Turkish get up on the left side is a little weak, to the point I scared myself once or twice. Tonight I was only able to do 4 reps with 35 lbs.

Should I bail the entire set and try again tomorrow? Or should I lighten my weight by 10 pounds (next lower weight I have) And finish the set?

What should I do with the set when my muscles fail?
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Your question reads as though you are not following the step progression from the book. It's a slow and steady approach but it works.
If it was just that you were having an off day then I'd stop and come back the next day rested.
 
Where in the get-up does it start to get shaky?

If it is in the latter part (getting to feet and then getting back down), you may want to mix in some half get-ups (from prone to seated or prone to kneeling) until you feel comfortable with the weight.

But like others have said, use caution. You don't want to get into a precarious situation on the get-up.
 
Unpopular opinion:

Using the TGU as your primary heavy strength grind is a misapplication.

It's best as a finesse and polishing move, for improving proprioception, mobility, and working secondary and tertiary stabilizer muscles.

You don't need a heavy weight if you use it appropriately, move slowly, and have a high level of mental focus on movement perfection.
 
I think shoe drills are fantastic for dialing in the movement and stability without the weight overhead. I love get-ups, but only do them heavy a couple times a week and mix in regular lighter days with either bottoms-up kettlebells or a shoe to dial in the movement without taxing myself too much.
 
Inherent in S&S is that if the bell you are using is too heavy to use on the vast majority of your sets on the vast majority of days - 5-6 sessions per week . . . it is too heavy - for that programming. Step loading, very gradually, making the sustainable weight harder when you feel strong by slowing down and being more deliberate, consolidating each 1-set increase before adding another, owning it before moving up . . . it is all in the book.
 
watchnerd said:
Unpopular opinion:

Using the TGU as your primary heavy strength grind is a misapplication.

It's best as a finesse and polishing move, for improving proprioception, mobility, and working secondary and tertiary stabilizer muscles.

You don't need a heavy weight if you use it appropriately, move slowly, and have a high level of mental focus on movement perfection.
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I think I agree with this. except I personally want to DOMINATE the TGU with the heaviest weight that is safe for my level of SPE (strength, power, endurance, and skill). I like the idea of approaching the TGU as a primary trick for proprioceiption/mobility, its 100% sensible. I do TGUs (either full, or half) at least 5 days/week.
 
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