Other S&S, my first glycolytic session in 8 months

Nacho

Level 5 Valued Member
8 months ago I was using 24kg bell, trying to own the time standards and I felt I was completely stuck. But then new edition of S&S was released and I started to use the talk test and the progression shown in the new book. I reached timeless simple 3 months ago and since then I have done 3-4 timeless sessions with it, until few sessions back I added first sets with 36kg bell with both exercises. Thought now is the right time to try a test session with 24kg.

Since I had only done timeless sessions during past 8 months, my expectations were quite low. I thought I would probably get out of breath quite early, my legs would start shaking etc. I decided that if that happens, I will take it easy and just reduce the rest periods a bit and sort of ease into glycolytic training again. But I did set the timer.

During first swing sets, I realized how much I had improved. That 24kg felt ridiculously light! Of course I knew it would feel light but it felt way lighter than I expected. Still, I expected the test session to get hard with 1:1 work rest ratio.
It didn’t. I cant believe how easy it was to do the session within time standars. When I was done with get ups, I jumped back up and I felt like I could do it all again straight away.

So, this stuff works! Get strong first!!!

But now Im facing a positive problem. 😊
If its that easy for me hitting time standards with -8kg bell after 8 months of just timeless sessions, I doubt if I need to do it every week... ? After all, it would often replace a timeless session. If I would have been out of breath and finished swings in 7 minutes and get ups in 13 minutes, I would of course see the point... But is there value in hitting the time standards easily once a week?
 

Papa Georgio

Level 5 Valued Member
But is there value in hitting the time standards easily once a week?
Yes.
You can certainly try to ditch weekly glycolytic sessions, and maybe by the time you hit "timeless" with 40kg, you will easily pop out the timed, simple standard, but probably not. Get into this practice when the bells are smaller, because it only gets harder as you go up.

I think you will find that these "light" glycolytic will help you recover for your "timeless" heavier sessions.

If they just seem too easy, feel free to add in sets of a heavier bell in your glycolytic sessions to make sure you're getting your money's worth.
 

Molson

Level 5 Valued Member
Yes.
You can certainly try to ditch weekly glycolytic sessions, and maybe by the time you hit "timeless" with 40kg, you will easily pop out the timed, simple standard, but probably not. Get into this practice when the bells are smaller, because it only gets harder as you go up.

I think you will find that these "light" glycolytic will help you recover for your "timeless" heavier sessions.

If they just seem too easy, feel free to add in sets of a heavier bell in your glycolytic sessions to make sure you're getting your money's worth.


Totally agree.

Those 24kg sessions are a breath of fresh air if you are deeper past just achieving timeless simple. You will feel more refreshed than beaten up. And, what is interesting, I find it quite clearly a different way of feeling my body has trained, compared to heavy regular sessions. It’s almost like you could say your ‘feeling’ your different energy system do the work on different sessions.
 

Nacho

Level 5 Valued Member
Couple of timed sessions done. Im going to keep on doing them weekly.
I also read S&S 2.0 book again and the updates of timed sessions are very informative!

One thing I noticed is my hamstrings got a bit sore and tight from timed sessions. I suppose thats normal...
Think I will add some hamstring stretching to my routine.
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 6 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Assuming your rest for timeless 40kg is between 60-90 seconds between sets, I am fully confident you have timed simple in your pocket
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
Considering a common work:rest mesocycle of 3 increasing work weeks followed by a deload, I wonder what that style of progressive overload looks like for S&S. Some ideas?
  • Week 1 = timed S-, week 2 = timed S, week 3 = timed S+, week 4 = no timed
  • Week 1 = 90s rest, week 2 = 75s rest, week 3 = 60s rest, week 4 = no timed
  • ???
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

I noticed that when you perform timeless S- for a few month in a row, you end up creating some kind of "strength reserve". I mean you polish the technique, become more efficient (same results with less energy expenditure).

From my experience:
Recently, I did timeless S. 2in roughly 1,5 month. Then, I tried the time standard, just out of curiosity and it went well. However, I started already "trained" (Cycle of RoP and already did Simple a while ago)

A few years ago - the first time I played with S&S actually - I got stucked with the swings @32. Back then, I was younger and not as patient as I am today. So, I did this following pratice:

Mon: Swings: 50 @40 + 50 @32 ; GU @32
Tue: 50@32 ; GU @32
Wed: 50 @40 + 50 @32 ; GU @32
Thu: 50 @32 ; GU @32
Fri: 50 @40 + 50 @32 ; GU @32
Sat: 50 @32 ; GU @32
Sun: rest

As you see, I just incorporated some heavier swings to get a strength reserve, only 3 times a week. Otherwise, I reduced volume with 32 to drill the technique, with low impact on recovery. The 40 were performed with 2 hands. The 32 with 1 hand.

This gave me the time standard in 2 months. Nonetheless, I had no real other physical activities other than pull ups and some walking back then. Of course, it may not be the "best and official" way to improve the swings, but it worked really well on me. I just came up with this idea by trying it with little to no expectation.

So, if you are already able to do the swings with only 60'' rest between sets, sure you get the Simple standard

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Nacho

Level 5 Valued Member
OK, I have now done the timed session with a 24kg bell on four fridays in a row and I have some random thoughts, questions and observations.

I dont feel as good and as fresh as when I did with just timeless sessions. The timed swings get my hamstrings sore and tight. I dont really feel like the timed session is that "refreshing". Swings "cook" me a bit and get ups are too easy. (But with timeless sessions Im doing 32,36,32,32,32 on both movements and I dont feel like one is easier than the other.) More about this below:

1. Im 190cm/6`3 tall. I have noticed that if and when I swing the bell to my chest high like I always do, it takes about 18 seconds to do 10 swings. I can do 100 swings in 5 minutes but I feel Im not at 1:1 work/rest ratio. I think Im in a big hurry compared to many S&S standard videos on youtube. For training reasons, should I just give myself 15 (or 18?) second rest instead of starting a set every 30 seconds?

2. I have noticed my get ups take almost 40 seconds in timeless sessions. I really like to focus and stop for a while to make sure Im aligned properly etc. If I do a get up in 30 seconds with 24kg, I feel like Im rushing a bit, and then Im a bit bored for 30 second rest. I feel like I could do 5 minutes of get ups without a rest with 24kg, like ETK PM has it written. That`s why I feel like timed S&S get ups with 24kg really doesnt do much for me. Should I just set the timer to 5 mins and do as many slow/comfortable get ups as I can until the clock beeps?

3. If one just wants to get the benefits of glycolytic sessions but doesn`t want to stress too much about reaching timed simple, does it really matter which exercises you use? Would the glycolytic session be a nice way to add some exercise variety also at the same time? Meaning some kind of circuit, or maybe complexes? Or maybe something from OS bulletproof project book? (10 minute "challenges", like crawling, carries etc.) Or occasionally high rep/non stop swings?

Feel free to comment... :)
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
OK, I have now done the timed session with a 24kg bell on four fridays in a row and I have some random thoughts, questions and observations.

I dont feel as good and as fresh as when I did with just timeless sessions. The timed swings get my hamstrings sore and tight. I dont really feel like the timed session is that "refreshing". Swings "cook" me a bit and get ups are too easy. (But with timeless sessions Im doing 32,36,32,32,32 on both movements and I dont feel like one is easier than the other.) More about this below:

1. Im 190cm/6`3 tall. I have noticed that if and when I swing the bell to my chest high like I always do, it takes about 18 seconds to do 10 swings. I can do 100 swings in 5 minutes but I feel Im not at 1:1 work/rest ratio. I think Im in a big hurry compared to many S&S standard videos on youtube. For training reasons, should I just give myself 15 (or 18?) second rest instead of starting a set every 30 seconds?

2. I have noticed my get ups take almost 40 seconds in timeless sessions. I really like to focus and stop for a while to make sure Im aligned properly etc. If I do a get up in 30 seconds with 24kg, I feel like Im rushing a bit, and then Im a bit bored for 30 second rest. I feel like I could do 5 minutes of get ups without a rest with 24kg, like ETK PM has it written. That`s why I feel like timed S&S get ups with 24kg really doesnt do much for me. Should I just set the timer to 5 mins and do as many slow/comfortable get ups as I can until the clock beeps?

3. If one just wants to get the benefits of glycolytic sessions but doesn`t want to stress too much about reaching timed simple, does it really matter which exercises you use? Would the glycolytic session be a nice way to add some exercise variety also at the same time? Meaning some kind of circuit, or maybe complexes? Or maybe something from OS bulletproof project book? (10 minute "challenges", like crawling, carries etc.) Or occasionally high rep/non stop swings?

Feel free to comment... :)

Sounds to me like you're following the right indicators for training success, not just the arbitrary standards.

The arbitrary standards (such as Timed Simple) are really most useful for creating a common frame of reference for purposes of discussion. There's no specific magic in them, although they are certainly oriented towards training success in many ways.

So, given that, I think your adjustments are appropriate, and event more so, specifically appropriate for you -- actual 1:1 work/rest ratio for swings, heavy but longer get-ups, glycolytic sessions with snatches or some other variety work... all good training-wise, IMO.
 

Papa Georgio

Level 5 Valued Member
I dont feel as good and as fresh as when I did with just timeless sessions. The timed swings get my hamstrings sore and tight. I dont really feel like the timed session is that "refreshing". Swings "cook" me a bit and get ups are too easy. (But with timeless sessions Im doing 32,36,32,32,32 on both movements and I dont feel like one is easier than the other.) More about this below:
These sessions will create more acid build up. Try fast & loose drills between sets. Make sure you do your stretching after session. Use these sessions to focus on your breathing. Since you are swinging lighter, you shouldn't need as much tension. This is not an excuse to let your breathing go all over the place. Stay with bio-mechanical breathing, but the less tension should allow you to free your breathing up to take a little bigger inhales & exhales. Maximize your relaxation on the float (Hold just-enough tension to hold plank). Between sets, fight the urge to gasp for air. Try to use slower and deeper breathing for recovery.

1. Im 190cm/6`3 tall. I have noticed that if and when I swing the bell to my chest high like I always do, it takes about 18 seconds to do 10 swings. I can do 100 swings in 5 minutes but I feel Im not at 1:1 work/rest ratio. I think Im in a big hurry compared to many S&S standard videos on youtube. For training reasons, should I just give myself 15 (or 18?) second rest instead of starting a set every 30 seconds?
I can't do 10 swings in 15 sec unless they are over-speed swings. My usual set takes me about 18 seconds too. I just suck it up and keep my sets every 30 seconds.

2. I have noticed my get ups take almost 40 seconds in timeless sessions. I really like to focus and stop for a while to make sure Im aligned properly etc. If I do a get up in 30 seconds with 24kg, I feel like Im rushing a bit, and then Im a bit bored for 30 second rest. I feel like I could do 5 minutes of get ups without a rest with 24kg, like ETK PM has it written. That`s why I feel like timed S&S get ups with 24kg really doesnt do much for me. Should I just set the timer to 5 mins and do as many slow/comfortable get ups as I can until the clock beeps?
You can do it any way you like. Whenever I do a test/glycolytic session, I usually stick to the set timing (swings sets every 30s, GU's OTM) If the GU's seem to easy, maybe I need to go heavier next time. Otherwise, easy GU's are a nice cool down from the swings.

3. If one just wants to get the benefits of glycolytic sessions but doesn`t want to stress too much about reaching timed simple, does it really matter which exercises you use? Would the glycolytic session be a nice way to add some exercise variety also at the same time? Meaning some kind of circuit, or maybe complexes? Or maybe something from OS bulletproof project book? (10 minute "challenges", like crawling, carries etc.) Or occasionally high rep/non stop swings?
There are a lot of options if you don't have the desire to hit simple standard and just want to do something glycolytic. Staying with the S&S plan would be advantageous because you will learn efficiencies in the swings, GU's and breathing that you won't learn in your timeless sessions. Those efficiencies will carry over into your timeless sessions as well. Having an established target (like S&S standard) , and hitting it does more for your mental strength than anything. Once you've conquered something mentally, the physical part becomes easier.

Good Luck!
 
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