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Kettlebell S&S newbie; 5 days on, 1 day off. Is this too much because I feel overtrained now?!

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Statia

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Been doing S&S since Aug now. I ride a desk all day and this is my first proper exercise regimen I've done in my life and I'm late 30's. All I've really done exercise wise previously is walking.

I started with a 12kg bell and worked up to 16 and now doing some 24kg two handed swings in the mix along with the 16kg. I'm comfortable passing the tests for getups and swings within the time standards for the 16kg, but now I'm incrementing the 24kg into my routine, I'm feeling like it's really taking it's toll on me, and now I'm definitely feeling like I've overtrained and my body is exhausted. A new sensation to me to be honest. I'm taking a few days off to let a muscle I've pulled heal and my body recover.

I've generally been doing five consecutive days of S&S with a day off. My stamina has always been poor, which is one of the reasons I started with S&S. When I feel ready to start training again, should I back off from my current schedule and do it every other day or something?

What do you guys think? I'm excited by and really enjoy S&S, but I feel like my body is holding me back right now. Perhaps I'm not eating enough calories? My appetite hasn't really increased much since starting S&S but I have made an effort to add more high calorie foods to my diet.
 
- reduce the sets with 24 for now, but keep practicing.
- don't be afraid to stay longer on sets with 16.
- patiently and gradually insert 24 in your practice. Stay on it as long as need. Then add another set with 24. Stay there as long as needed. The keywords are patience and consistency.
- occasional overtraining is not necessarily bad - deal with it. Heavy is of course relative, but - 24 is not heavy.
- eat like a man, sleep like a baby
 
Statia, congratulations on doing something about your general health and condition. As you have found, it's not as simple as swinging a kettlebell.

Here is a suggested Rx (prescription) for you based on a sedentary lifestyle and moving into your first minor injury and feeling bad about your new exercise routine.

1) Get a Functional Movement Screen to ensure your body can do what you are asking it to do.

2) Seek out an SFGI/II to ensure your kettlebell practice is correct.

3) Purchase Original Strength and use that to teach your body how to move again.

4) Look carefully at your nutrition. Your body does not like change and it will rebel. Eliminate the excuses not to perform. S&S is a type of easy strength program. Any strength program requires protein, arguably one of the toughest and most expensive nutrients to add to your diet.

5) Start again (when you are truly ready) at the weight that felt GOOD; the weight that you OWNED, and stay there awhile. Enjoy it, and don't move up until you are bored. When you are ready to move up, use @Steve Freides blog post from ~July of 2014 to move up slowly but steadily.

6) Listen to your body. It's not a race. You're not behind and nobody wins. It's a track that we are all at a different place on. Some are just starting. Some have been around a few more times than you.

That's it. That's all I know. I'm 15 years older than you. I started S&S in October. I'm still swinging the same 16kg as when I started, and it was a month before I could do 5x1 TGU with 4.5kg.

And I don't care how long it takes.

I'm injury and pain free.

I'm slowly losing weight.

I'm getting stronger.

And I now follow S&S to the letter, including the two stretches at night.

Keep asking questions, keep reading this forum, and keep at it!

Oh, and please keep us posted on your progress.

I have found this to be a wonderfully supportive forum.
 
@Pavel Macek @Lew Thanks for your responses and support guys.

I'll go back to my 16kg for a while longer and get myself back to where I was. I got greedy with the 24kg bell and it told me who's boss in no uncertain terms. The ego is always challenging me and learning to keep it under wraps is part of the journey. I'll continue to go on a five days of S&S with one of rest as I have been.

My weight is good at 74kg, 6' tall. I eat mainly clean after doing a spell of following a Keto diet a year or so back. I am trying to incorporate more protein into my diet now as I understand that my muscles need it. I may go to using protein shakes for a while to see if they assist me but I'm eating more high quality meat cuts of beef and lamb steaks with veg and getting more eggs into my diet also.
 
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Statia,
What kind of rest periods are you using between sets? Rushing the rest periods will make recovery harder and will actually be less beneficial in some ways, such as developing aerobic fitness (there have been lots of discussions about this on the forum). A few approaches are using a heart rate monitor to make sure you are keeping your heart rate in the 180-age range (a general guideline promoted by Phil Maffetone, and used successfully by many), making sure you can nasal breathe between sets, or using the "talk test" (can you talk comfortably between sets).

Constant training that is heavily glycolytic can lead to an overtrained, burned out feeling like you describe.

A main principle of S&S is that it IS repeatable on a daily basis without overtraining. So if it isn't, I'd look at reducing your exertion level through taking longer rests, not pushing the bell size, and perhaps using fewer reps per set when using a more challenging bell. Dan John gives a great mental guideline for high frequency training: "Train today as if you are going to try to set a personal record tomorrow."
 
Lew's post was everything that needed to be said. I just wanted to add that I'm also in my late 30's. I was very sedintary until I got off my but at 35. I was training with barbells at the time, but having the same issues. I was pulling this, pulling that, trying to do things I shouldn't because my mobility was terrible, and causing myslef aggrivation. The best thing I heard is "This is a marathon, not a sprint". Chill out and enjoy yourself. See yourself in your 70's and 80's still powerful and strong. That's the goal (for me at least).
 
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Lew's post was everything that needed to be said... See yourself in your 70's and 80's still powerful and strong. That's the goal (for me at least).

Thank you Matt.

Someone else in this forum first said:

"The goal is to be the last one to wipe your own a#@."

I believe that about sums it up.
:eek:;):)
 
I would like to add few notes. When I re-started S&S cca. 3 months ago, I was more or less sore (especially lats), even though I used relatively light weights. Right now, I am practicing with relatively heavier weights for my bodyweight (68 kg) - 36-40 kg for swings, 32-36 kg for get-ups. I train S&S almost daily, and I am almost never sore at all. My first set(s) will tell me if I should keep the same weight, reduce it, or increase (which I do very, very gradually). I will be 40 next year. Patience, common sense, and consistency are the key.
 
Some great feedback already given, be patient, keep working away and you'll get there and remember meeting the time milestones is a test , don't try to hit them daily, especially when incorporating the next bell. Move up to the next bell when you can strongly past the times with your current bell, not just pass them. Concentrate on form not the weight, you will progress steadily and read s&s over and over, there's great detail in there that can easily be forgotten or missed on 1 or 2 reads.
 
Statia,
What kind of rest periods are you using between sets? Rushing the rest periods will make recovery harder and will actually be less beneficial in some ways, such as developing aerobic fitness (there have been lots of discussions about this on the forum). A few approaches are using a heart rate monitor to make sure you are keeping your heart rate in the 180-age range (a general guideline promoted by Phil Maffetone, and used successfully by many), making sure you can nasal breathe between sets, or using the "talk test" (can you talk comfortably between sets).

Constant training that is heavily glycolytic can lead to an overtrained, burned out feeling like you describe.

@Steve W. I've been using my HRM to ensure I stay mostly in the aerobic zone during my swings (according to the Maffetone formula). I've also been doing the nasal breathing to assist with bringing my HR down between swing sets. I have to admit that I was pushing myself with get-ups and my heart rate was being pushed higher as I was only waiting for my HR to drop to about 130 before my next set. I didn't realise that this would cause overtraining from being glycolytic. I'm learning as I go along, but learning the hard way is usually the best way in the long run as you're less likely to fail the same way again.

I've been back using my 16kg bell exclusively for S&S training the last two days. My EliteHRV score yesterday was 10, so I decided to give S&S a go again and I took my time and plenty of rests between sets for both swings and getups. This morning, the same. I will continue this way for the next week or two. I'm learning great stuff from you guys in this forum and everyone's responses/input are much appreciated.
 
I have to admit that I was pushing myself with get-ups and my heart rate was being pushed higher as I was only waiting for my HR to drop to about 130 before my next set. I didn't realise that this would cause overtraining from being glycolytic.

In my understanding, this isn't true for get-ups the way it is for swings. You don't have to be concerned with your HR for the get-ups. Just give yourself enough rest to where you can do the next one very well. Good technique is the important thing.
 
In my understanding, this isn't true for get-ups the way it is for swings.

This is how I understood it too, but if I go glycolytic during getups, what's the difference in terms of potential for overtraining as opposed to going glycolytic during swings? Do we try and stay aerobic only during swings to improve aerobic fitness? I'm purely asking this as I am have little knowledge of fitness science.
 
A good question, Statia, and I don't know the answer. But I suspect that if you push yourself too much with get-ups, you would suffer more from reduced ability to do a good get-up and possibly muscle soreness, more so than overtraining as from going glycolytic during swings.

As for staying aerobic during swings, yes to improve aerobic fitness -- but more pointedly for this short 10x10 session, to avoid the acidity produced by glycolysis, which induces stress.

@aciampa ?
 
@Statia, the getups is a strength move. Once the weight is heavy enough, all this silly talk of aerobics will no longer be relevant. :) Seriously, just make sure you're fresh for every rep - be able to pass the talk test, and be able to complete the final rep still feeling like you could do more.

-S-
 
In my understanding, this isn't true for get-ups the way it is for swings.

You are completely correct.

For myself, I have found that with as much as I have struggled with the TGUs, using the breath test between get ups has helped me.

But then, at 60lbs overweight and using 10lbs for the TGU; I may have already reached Simple for S&S TGU!

:eek:;)
 
Funny thing about get-ups for me... I've never understood it when people mention the "talk test" relative to get-ups. They just don't make me breath hard, even at 32kg, 30 sec rep duration. I mean, they're hard work, and my HR elevates, but they don't make me breath hard like swings do. But I see that get-ups do affect others differently. I wonder why....
 
Anna, I know, confuses me too. I find heavy get ups, heavy, taxing yet my breath is zen and my HR never climbs over my maf number. I say never, it did during the simple goals but only to 130 from a maf 124, that due to it being elevated after the short 1 min rest. Day to day s&s practices, never. So I wonder when other peeps do their swings with an eye on their HR and maintain it relative to their rests, yet it shoots up with their get ups. I would have thought with me, relative to exertion, I should have a much higher HR during the get ups as they were a lot harder for me compared to swings. We are all different obviously but I thought there would be a general pattern for all, clearly not. Raises the question of variability of individuals in a lab setting and environmental stress responses. Maybe my HR would be higher if I was being watched or in a gym. Performance stress, in a way or a higher HR may suggest a movement dysfunction or instability that the get upperer may not be aware of or too heavy a bell or a combination of or nothing at all. I get that a high HR rockets during a lift or strength move. It's explosive and short and is not considered to involve conditioning, as we discuss aerobic conditioning to be. But a get up is a near 30 second continuous move, that's a long time to be working with an elevated HR and for the body to be under systemic stress. And to do 10 of them. If it was me and perhaps I'm being overly cautious, I would drop the weight and work on the movement a bit more. But that may not apply to anyone else.....I wouldn't want a fight with a 32kg kettlebell, that's all. Yes, and I'm a big sissy.
 
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