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Kettlebell S&S newbie query (Prying Goblet Squat)

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DomOBOW

DomOBOW

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I'm a 34-year old male. 6'4 tall and about 75kg. Not got any muscle, or flexibility so having listened to Pavel being interviewed by Tim Ferriss picked up some kettlebells (8, 12, 16, 20kg) and a copy of Simple & Sinister.

I've got as far as exercise 1 in the warmup, the Prying Goblet Squat, of which I've included a video as requested.

I'm not good at understanding exactly, but it feels like when I slow down (about 10 degrees before parallel) my back is about straight. That seems to be my limit.



As you can see, I can not get to the point of wedging my elbows into my quads without either...
1) Heels coming off floor
2) Spine rounding.

What should I do?
 
@DomOBOW, a few suggestions:
--Use a heavier bell. The bell acts as a counterweight and a heavier weight will enable you to go deeper.
--You are trying to sit back into the squat, more like the hinge pattern from the deadlift or swing. Instead think about sitting DOWN between your feet. Drop your hips down rather than sitting back.
--Don't be afraid to let your knees move forward as much as necessary. Experiment with stance width and foot turnout to enable your knees to comfortably track your toes. Do not fight to keep your shins vertical and don't try to keep your weight back on your heels. Let the shins go forward and try to stay balanced evenly over your feet.
--Try pressing down with you elbows on TOP of your knees, while keeping your chest big, extending your head to the ceiling and imagining lengthening the distance between the crown of your head and your tailbone. Then relax and see if you can sink lower.
 
Chrisdavisjr said:
closer to your chest so that it doesn't pull you forward too much.
Click to expand...

But you can also use the longer lever arm from holding the weight out in front to counterbalance so you can stay upright without falling backward.

Personally, I do keep the bell in tight to my chest. But for people learning, holding the bell out in front can be helpful.
 
@DomOBOW ..welcome to the Strongfirst forum! As you can see from all those on point tips above, you're in the right place. Be sure to let us know what you tried and how it works for you....

Carl in Dover
 
@DomOBOW welcome!

+1 to @Steve W. Suggestion to use a heavier KB. It might sound counterintuitive at the beginning, but the weight is actually an assistance. Give it a try and you'll see.

I would suggest training without socks. That way you will grip the floor better and feel more secure, amongst other benefits
 
Great suggestions so far! I would add: relax and breathe. I witnessed amazing effects on the goblet squat when Al Ciampa coached a workshop participant on this. A deep, calm breath as you're sinking down into the squat tells your body you're not in a threatening position, and the muscles will relax a bit more to allow you to get deeper into the position.
 
Probably repeating most of the above, but you are not prying in the squat, you are twisting your hips - the idea is to 'open' your groin with elbows on the knees. To start I would get comfortable in the goblet squat bottom position until you can sit in there. Then you use the weight of the bell to pry, so a heavier bell is preferable, but within your comfort zone.

prying squat.jpg
 
@DomOBOW : I have about your height and weight, so I can relate. Welcome to the forum!

To underpin what others have said: Face the wall drills and rocking will help. And try to pull yourself actively into the squat position with your hip flexors. On top of that you would probably benefit from doing some ankle dorsiflexion drills before squatting.

S&S is a marathon, not a sprint. So take your time enjoy the ride :)
 
Anna C said:
Great suggestions so far! I would add: relax and breathe. I witnessed amazing effects on the goblet squat when Al Ciampa coached a workshop participant on this. A deep, calm breath as you're sinking down into the squat tells your body you're not in a threatening position, and the muscles will relax a bit more to allow you to get deeper into the position.
Click to expand...
@Anna C, one can do so many different things with the goblet squat. IMHO, a good default method of teaching it is to actively pull down into the bottommost position, then exhale and pry and look for additional depth. Some people will lose their good posture if they exhale on the way down. Actively pulling down is stronger and is good practice for eventually front squatting a pair of heavy bells or a barbell.

My personal preference for the OP here, mentioned in other, similar threads but here, would be to put away the goblet squat and use a supported squat instead, holding onto the upright of a power rack or other similarly sturdy and easy to grip object, and getting good at that - good posture but relaxed and deep at the bottom - for reps before revisiting the goblet squat.

-S-
 
I agree, @Steve Freides; I used a poor choice of words there ("as you're sinking down into the squat"). A better description of what I meant there is just as you said, while in the bottom position "exhale and pry and look for additional depth." So, some breathing while prying, mobilizing, looking for the deepest position, and trying to find that initial ability to go deep, is a helpful thing. In contrast, I wouldn't use that breath when doing goblet squats for warm-up or for strength. I would do those more like a kettlebell front squat - breath in, hold on the way down, hold tension at the bottom, "hup!" on the initial ascent, exhale on the very top part of the ascent and at the top, breath in, descent... etc.
 
A classic protocol I learned from Marty Gallagher for the bench press - use dumbbells (to get lower than you can with a bar), start light, and after you pull down, completely relax and let the weight stretch you out even further before you inhale, tighten up, and press them up. You start a session this way, and as you increase in weight, you do shorter pauses and exhales, and eventually discard them completely for a competition-like pause-but-stay-tight at the bottom.

Same kind of idea can be applied to the goblet squat, and I've even done it with a constant weight for two-bell front squats, but over the course of a set - relax at the bottom on the first reps, and as fatigue builds, use tension techniques to allow you to continue. Something of the same approach can work for high-rep pullups and other similar things, too.

-S-
 
Thank you all for the great feedback. Following the advice above, I have...
1. Taken my socks off,
2. Moved up to a 16kg kettlebell,
3. Gone for sitting straight down instead of back first,
4. Gone horns up,
5. Recorded a new video. -

It's just me getting down to elbows on top of knees, not trying the prying part of it.

I tried rocking before the video and think it helped.

On facing the wall, if I'm closer than about 4" the kettlebell starts hitting the wall.
 
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