S&S + Press

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
Hi SF community.

I would like to pick your brains on how pressing could be best incorporated along S&S.

I had been on S&S for over a year and after doing some tests I realized my press is worse than I expected. Doing get ups with 32 and 40kg I could only press 24kg for a 2RM. I pressed a 28kg for a single a year before, after ROP. My aim is to somehow bridge the gap and to be able to do 5x24kg once I close down Solid, so I could do ROP with it.

Now, the problem is I don’t have 20kg bell, been to stupid to sell it. I can do a dozen presses with 16kg.

For the last month I started doing a press day once per week with a sort of ROP light day format. Since it’s light I went over the top this week and with a 1-2-3-4-5, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3 I got overtrained as I had not in months.

Thus, what volume, format would you most recommend for presses in order not to jeopardize S&S itself?
 

ChrisWo468

Double-Digit Post Count
I get up the beast and can easily press the 32 kg a few times... Stick to the program and forget everything else. Since I get up the beast I press and bench a lot without training. Bench is on 105 kg five times.

I pressed the 32 kg bell a few weeks ago for 8 reps...

Maybe a tip: do your get ups slowly (30 seconds or so)

If you want to incorporate the press then stick to the Soja and tuba program in place for the get ups.

But I would stick to the program as written and you get Strong as f***.
 

Ben H

Double-Digit Post Count
I have been doing an S&S session every other day, alternated with a combination of Soju & Tuba for the MP and the Fighter Pull-up Program on the off days. It's been successful in that I've increased my 1RM by 65% in ten months (don't remember how many cycles of S&T but I have had several long breaks), but that is only a modest improvement from 16 to 26.5 ;) Pressing is always very slow progress for me.

I started doing the press sessions in the evenings after a morning S&S session, but had to dial it back. At least twice I did a cycle of S&T and then followed it with a ROP-style ladder progression with the same weight, that's what got me up to a solid 24kg press when the S&T cycle wasn't enough on its own. I found the volume a bit much for me though (in terms of recovery yes, but also in terms of time taken - 5 x ladders to 5 on each hand could take me an hour).

I would be interested to see other people's suggestions since I'm sure some of my slow progress is my own fault. By the way I'm currently doing a S&T cycle with the bent press for some variety, and hoping to get to 32kg with the MP by mid this year perhaps.
 
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Ben H

Double-Digit Post Count
Also, most of my TGUs are with the 40kg now but when I do them with the 32kg I press off the start position with one hand. That must have some MP carryover. Personally I found there wasn't a very direct carryover from a normal TGU (two hand press at the start) to the MP.
 

Papa Georgio

More than 300 posts
I'm sure there are ways to train your press & TGU simultaneously, but the fastest way to hitting your TGU goal is just doing TGU's. You will probably lose some of your pressing ability when you lay off in favor of TGU's. But, If you work up to doing some decent volume (30-50 a week) with the 40kg TGU's before returning to pressing, you will quickly return to your old pressing prowess within a couple of weeks, and it will probably take off from there. Pressing takes just as much skill as it does strength. The TGU's will take care of the strength part, you will have time to improve the skill part of it later. This has been my experience

If you are still having challenges doing a strict press with a 24 after your 40kg TGU goal, you can still do push press with slow negatives with the 24 and bottom's-up with the 16. But my bet is that you'll be back at that 28kg before you know it. Good Luck!
 

pet'

> 6k Posts
Hello,

As much and wisely stated, to press a lot, you must press a lot. I remember reading somewhere that we can get good press grains in the range of 50-100 press a week. Of course, RoP is way above, but remains kind of "press-focused".

I just did a cycle of Soju & Tuba in addition to my routine. I went from 20 to 28. Now, I can do several singles of 28 every day.

I think a regular S&S training can be done. Adding for instance 10-15 reps a day (GTG or not) will not impair S&S recovery, provided we use a moderate weight. I enjoy using the 24 to build volume without burning out. So it is my 3-4RM

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Matthieu

Double-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
@Molson , you are not alone !
I introduced the 40 kg kettlebell in my s&s sessions in 2017.
My press PR is 32 kg (June 2019), left and right, and I could do it just because I did a specialized press program (soju and tuba press).
Actually, I can do one or two TGU with the 44 kg bell during my training sessions, whereas I can't do a single press with the 32 kg bell.

That's strange and a little be frustrating, but you can see the good side of things : many of those who like TGU say that the progress they made on this lift are very stable. I have found myself that even without a TGU focused program, I have kept my ability to lift heavy (heavy for me I want to say) with the TGU.

When you will achieve your goal, and maybe make a transition to a press program, you will probably keep your TGU strength ! I have the impression that the opposite is much more difficult... but that's just my feeling.
Matthieu
 

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
I get up the beast and can easily press the 32 kg a few times... Stick to the program and forget everything else. Since I get up the beast I press and bench a lot without training. Bench is on 105 kg five times.

I pressed the 32 kg bell a few weeks ago for 8 reps...

Maybe a tip: do your get ups slowly (30 seconds or so)

If you want to incorporate the press then stick to the Soja and tuba program in place for the get ups.

But I would stick to the program as written and you get Strong as f***.
@Molson , you are not alone !
I introduced the 40 kg kettlebell in my s&s sessions in 2017.
My press PR is 32 kg (June 2019), left and right, and I could do it just because I did a specialized press program (soju and tuba press).
Actually, I can do one or two TGU with the 44 kg bell during my training sessions, whereas I can't do a single press with the 32 kg bell.

That's strange and a little be frustrating, but you can see the good side of things : many of those who like TGU say that the progress they made on this lift are very stable. I have found myself that even without a TGU focused program, I have kept my ability to lift heavy (heavy for me I want to say) with the TGU.

When you will achieve your goal, and maybe make a transition to a press program, you will probably keep your TGU strength ! I have the impression that the opposite is much more difficult... but that's just my feeling.
Matthieu
This is it. I think that the TGU carryover to MP applies to everyone differently. Chris, I was expecting to see such (proportional) results with 32/40 TGU after 12 months of S&S. Maybe it's genetics, I'm long limbed, narrow torso ectomorph, I assume the leverage is different. By now I know that even if I go to pure 40kg S&S (not far off) I should not expect much from my press. And I do start the floor press part single handly. That's what brought me to experiment with incorporating it along S&S. I still like and enjoy S&S on it's own, but it's just a visible gap.

This one month of 1 light-medium press day per week had already given me a boost and I think I see it solidified the TGU actually as well.

Matthieu,
I am aiming to go for a pure press plan later this year. But after being not happy with both my TGU drop during pure ROP, MP fade during S&S I know that I will be exploring ways of working on both at once, but with different emphasis, in the future. A few examples could be the
Joey Yang here: Consistency Trumps Intensity—The Continuity of the Training Process | StrongFirst

or Pavel Macek with his Sword, Shield and Spear (I might have mixed up the order) Clean Press Snatch program, would love to see it published some day.
 

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
I have been doing an S&S session every other day, alternated with a combination of Soju & Tuba for the MP and the Fighter Pull-up Program on the off days. It's been successful in that I've increased my 1RM by 65% in ten months (don't remember how many cycles of S&T but I have had several long breaks), but that is only a modest improvement from 16 to 26.5 ;) Pressing is always very slow progress for me even.

I started doing the press sessions in the evenings after a morning S&S session, but had to dial it back. At least twice I did a cycle of S&T and then followed it with a ROP-style ladder progression with the same weight, that's what got me up to a solid 24kg press when the S&T cycle wasn't enough on its own. I found the volume a bit much for me though (in terms of recovery yes, but also in terms of time taken - 5 x ladders to 5 on each hand could take me an hour).

I would be interested to see other people's suggestions since I'm sure some of my slow progress is my own fault. By the way I'm currently doing a S&T cycle with the bent press for some variety, and hoping to get to 32kg with the MP by mid this year perhaps.
Hi Ben, I like your approach, will give it a go at some point!
 

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
@Molsonwhy dont you try some GTG presses? Or GTG push ups?
I tried this a bit but I'm not able to get into a proper GTG schedule on a daily basis, just early morning and everning (which I rather avoid) training possible.
 

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
Hello,

As much and wisely stated, to press a lot, you must press a lot. I remember reading somewhere that we can get good press grains in the range of 50-100 press a week. Of course, RoP is way above, but remains kind of "press-focused".

I just did a cycle of Soju & Tuba in addition to my routine. I went from 20 to 28. Now, I can do several singles of 28 every day.

I think a regular S&S training can be done. Adding for instance 10-15 reps a day (GTG or not) will not impair S&S recovery, provided we use a moderate weight. I enjoy using the 24 to build volume without burning out. So it is my 3-4RM

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thanks pet', this makes sense. And indeed you can't get around the proper volume, I tried GTG but it was just not enought to get the result due to inconsitancy, and now after a few sessions in ROPish format I can already see a difference.
 

ShawnM

> 2k Posts
Knock out 2-3 floor presses before each get up. You'll be able to increase your overhead pressing strength while still doing S&S. Or, do swings and get ups one day and swings and presses, either floor or overhead, the next.
 

iron&flint

Triple-Digit Post Count
I focused on my pressing for a long time so 32kg is around my 5-6RM but I still can’t do a TGU with a 40kg for a single. It probably says more about my TGU form than my pressing but even when my focus is S&S (I’m at timed Simple), I’ll still throw in a Variety Day that contains some OA 32kg ladders, Armor Building Complex with 24s or 32s, and weighted dips. I’ll also do OAPUs GTG-style a few days a week. That has been plenty to maintain my pressing.

Keep the goal the goal but add bits and pieces of pushing where you can, and at the very least press the KB out with one arm during your TGUs.
 

Kalle Videnoja

Double-Digit Post Count
I’ll still throw in a Variety Day that contains some OA 32kg ladders, Armor Building Complex with 24s or 32s, and weighted dips. I’ll also do OAPUs GTG-style a few days a week. That has been plenty to maintain my pressing.
Is there a consensus of much volume is usually needed to maintain press?

After achieving the Simple standard, I could hardly press a 24kg even though I could do single TGUs with a 40kg bell. After some GTG presses and one cycle of RoP, I could press a 32kg. Now I've been running Kettlebell Strong! and planning to go back to S&S next summer after finishing KBS!. Obviously, there wasn't that much carryover for me from TGU to press. I think that at least to some degree, TGU might maintain the press regardless of there not being much transference concerning strength gains. I've been thinking of adding one day of Armor Building Complex in order to keep FSQ and MP patterns active. Still, it's really low pressing volume compared to RoP or the second phase of KBS!.
 
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