S&S progression?

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Colby, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Colby

    Colby Double-Digit Post Count

    I love the simplicity of simple and sinister but my concern is once you reach the “48kg one arm swings for 10x10 and 5 get ups per side” where do you go from there. With other lifts you progressively go up in weight or reps(preferably weight) but how do you keep challenging yourself with the program. The Obvious answer would be to get a heavier kettlebell , but Pavel talks about the akwardnes and mechanic change past a 48kg bell. How do you keep progressing with simple and sinister while keeping the fundamentals?
  2. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Well, Sinister is pretty far out.

    Maybe this article will give you some ideas:
    From "Simple" to Serious Endurance | StrongFirst

    You could probably do some QnD or A+A style training (basically like in the article but in sets of 5 and possibly with snatches). Look for strong people such as Harald Motz, Anna Cannington, Arryn Grogan or Mark Reifkind and you will find plenty of inspiration.
  3. Pavel Macek

    Pavel Macek More than 2500 posts Master Certified Instructor

    Switch to different program, such as ROP (clean, press, swing, snatch), and do easier S&S on your variety days.

    Or switch to barbell, or bodyweight, and again, keep doing S&S twice a week.
    SuperGirevik likes this.
  4. Colby

    Colby Double-Digit Post Count

    Great! Thank you so much for your response!
  5. ClaudeR

    ClaudeR Triple-Digit Post Count

    Once you get to Sinister I don't think 1H swings and TGU will do much more for you... a good problem to have!
    Keep them in once or twice a week and focus on other things
  6. ClaudeR

    ClaudeR Triple-Digit Post Count

    welcome to the forum by the way!

    Do you currently do S&S, and at what level? That will inform a lot of what your next step is (i.e. don't be fooled by the low 48kg, not many people reach that level)
  7. Colby

    Colby Double-Digit Post Count

    I was looking at doing a program and wanted something to follow for the long haul, so I wasn’t sure if I should focus more on the grinds or blaistics and TGU. From a growth perspective that is.
  8. njrick1

    njrick1 Double-Digit Post Count

    Interesting discussion...it seems that the consensus is that going above 48kg is not worth it in this program, as the OP suggested. However, since the S&S goals are not bodyweight specific, a 56kg for a larger person might be similar to a 48kg for a smaller person, does this still mean going above 48kg is not ideal?
  9. ClaudeR

    ClaudeR Triple-Digit Post Count

    Nothing wrong with going beyond, I just meant that there could be diminishing returns
    @Harald Motz routinely TGUs a 56kg and swings even heavier I think
  10. Oso Rojo

    Oso Rojo Double-Digit Post Count

    Colby, what is your answer to the what level now questions? Also what is your definition of "Long Haul"

    My experience as an older grevik is that it may take a while to just get to 32. I'm 6 months in and could be easily looking at another 3 or 4 months to get to 32/32. I'm currently at 30/22.

    I'm looking at SS as the beginning, and then another set of more challenging exercises. Maybe cleans, presses, etc. Plus I'm on the downhill slide of physical capability, but you may be on the uphill side. If so, then maxing out at 48/48 is great, then you can start maxing out the other lifts!
  11. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    I'm with @Pavel Maçek here - go pick up a barbell because you can probably warmup with my personal best.

    cheldelformai and Molson like this.
  12. North

    North Double-Digit Post Count

    Unless you are already a beast accomplishing Sinister will take longer than you think.
  13. Molson

    Molson Double-Digit Post Count

    Interesting thread and great feedback so far in previous posts.

    Dariusz Reinhard from Poland had performed a 60kg Sinister :

    Now, he is a good example of adjusting the weight to body weight/ strength level. This is probably beyond for most certified instructors.

    Going back to the original question you could say that if S&S is GPP, you reach your minimum preparation by Simple standard. Beyond that you can improve it by going to Sinister or just swap for maintenance with low frequency. It is a good question if going beyond Sinister works as GPP anymore, by this time you are to be more than prepared for whatever you need.

    The TGU has passed potentially no limit of weight you could use but at some point it requires a barbell.

    One hand swing will always have it’s limits so at some point you either switch to heavy two arm swings, but this requires huge KBs. So going to deadlift BB is just natural. But by the time anyone reaches Sinister they probably had started BB anyway and their DL would be solid either way.
    iron&flint and Colby like this.
  14. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Quadruple-Digit Post Count Elite Certified Instructor

    Something to think about..

    S and S sinister standard
    Rite of passage half bodyweight press, SSST
    Return of the kettlebell bodyweight press, bodyweight in poundsx10% = reps double 32kg clean and jerk

    All are simple, not easy and enough to keep you occupied for a period of time
  15. njrick1

    njrick1 Double-Digit Post Count

    That's awesome! While I agree that ROP, ROTK or barbell/body weight work are all great options after Sinister, my body and mind always feel best when I'm on S&S compared to any of those other options. This makes pushing beyond Sinister a tempting option.
    Molson likes this.
  16. njrick1

    njrick1 Double-Digit Post Count

    @Steve Freides What barbell program(s) would you recommend in this scenario?
  17. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Have you competed in powerlifting or the TSC? Does either interest you?

  18. njrick1

    njrick1 Double-Digit Post Count

    I haven't done either but both seem interesting, as long as I could continue minimalist style training/practice.
  19. WhatWouldHulkDo

    WhatWouldHulkDo Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    In my mind, a good swing is like throwing a punch - it's delivering huge force in a short interval. It's very satisfying to hit the bell so hard out of the hole that it just floats up to your chest.

    Once the weight of a swing goes up... it changes into something else, more of a dynamic deadlift. Watching that video Reinhard swinging the 60, he's not punching it, he's wrestling with it. Not to take anything away from him, he's clearly a monster.

    My point is, I think if one's training became nothing but seriously heavy swings - and heavy, of course, is a relative term - you might be missing out on the benefits (and fun) of viciously explosive swings.

    That said, if you happen to be one of those rare individuals who can hammer out 100 powerful swings with the 48, then that is clearly what you should be doing.
  20. Benen_Karski

    Benen_Karski Triple-Digit Post Count

    Just a thought on another progression after reaching sinister, rather than continuing ramping up in weight (and buying more KBs) on 2 handed swings, wouldn't double KB swings be a smart progression? And from there you could make it even more challenging by doing offset double KB swings. Doubles seems to have the benefits of both 2 handed and 1 handed swings, combined into 1 neat little package. I'm very pro-deadlifting, of course too, so I think if you're not already, deadlifts, at least on occasion is a great choice for most. Swings train the hinge and posterior chain ballistically, while deadlifts train the same pattern and muscle groups slowly and grindingly. Doing both, at least after S&S and if time/equipment permits, seems like a great way to cover all your bases and maximize strength and athleticism.
    Discipulus and william bad butt like this.

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