S & S Questions - Links

blake

My Third Post
In our Members Only section, I have asked for topics that might be addressed in an FAQ specifically about Kettlebell Simple and Sinister. (If you don't Watch that forum, please start doing so if you're a registered user.)

I'd love also to have you post links about older threads that you feel address things that weren't clear to someone after they read the book. Got any links for me? They could be recent or even from the old forum, all of whose messages are still available to everyone here.

My thanks to everyone in advance and, of course, please feel free to post your own thread in the new sub-section under Members Only devoted to this topic.

Thanks again.

-S-
I'm starting S&S and just read Q&D as well. Would you recommend running S&S and Q&D at the same time in any capacity? In Q&D Pavel mentions that it is a great program to run alongside your strength program...so I'm hoping to clarify whether or not S&S falls under the category of "strength program." If S&S does not, then would Q&D work well alongside a traditional MWF barbell protocol?

Thank you!

-Blake
 

Jrschade

Second Post
I heard Paval talking on Joe Rogan and Tim Ferriss podcasts. I just bought Simple & Sinister and set of kettlebells. I’m training on S&S right now.

I’m in the Army National Guard. We have a new physical training test coming out in October of 2020. I’ve always maxed the test in the past but I know I will need a new approach with the new test.

Previously the Army PT test was just 2 minutes of push-ups, 2 minutes of sit-ups, and a 2-mile run but has moved to a more difficult test.

Starting in October of 2020 the Pt test will consist of 6 events:

Event 1: 3 repetition Maximum Dead Lift (with a Hex or Trap Bar) [Score Maximum 340 pounds;Goal-300;Minimum-140]

Event 2: Standing Power Throw (10 pound medicine ball throw over your head) [Max 12.5 meters;Goal 11; Min-4.5]

Event 3: Hand-Release Pushups in 2 minutes [Max-60;Goal-50; Min-10]

Event 4: Sprint-Drag-Carry 250 meter relay (spint 25 meters and back, pull 90 lbs sled backwards 25 meters and back, carry 2-40lbs kettlebells, side strattle 25 meters, run 25 meters and back) [Max-1:33;Goal-1:50; Min-3:00]

Event 5: Leg Tucks (knees to elbows on a pull-up bar) [Max-20;Goal-15;Min-1]

Event 6: 2-mile run. [Max-13:30; Goal-15:00; Min-21:00]

I assume either Simple & Sinister or Q&D with dead lifts added would be the way to go but I’m open to suggestions. I’m completely sold on the timeless approach in S&S.
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
I heard Paval talking on Joe Rogan and Tim Ferriss podcasts. I just bought Simple & Sinister and set of kettlebells. I’m training on S&S right now.

I’m in the Army National Guard. We have a new physical training test coming out in October of 2020. I’ve always maxed the test in the past but I know I will need a new approach with the new test.

Previously the Army PT test was just 2 minutes of push-ups, 2 minutes of sit-ups, and a 2-mile run but has moved to a more difficult test.

Starting in October of 2020 the Pt test will consist of 6 events:

Event 1: 3 repetition Maximum Dead Lift (with a Hex or Trap Bar) [Score Maximum 340 pounds;Goal-300;Minimum-140]

Event 2: Standing Power Throw (10 pound medicine ball throw over your head) [Max 12.5 meters;Goal 11; Min-4.5]

Event 3: Hand-Release Pushups in 2 minutes [Max-60;Goal-50; Min-10]

Event 4: Sprint-Drag-Carry 250 meter relay (spint 25 meters and back, pull 90 lbs sled backwards 25 meters and back, carry 2-40lbs kettlebells, side strattle 25 meters, run 25 meters and back) [Max-1:33;Goal-1:50; Min-3:00]

Event 5: Leg Tucks (knees to elbows on a pull-up bar) [Max-20;Goal-15;Min-1]

Event 6: 2-mile run. [Max-13:30; Goal-15:00; Min-21:00]

I assume either Simple & Sinister or Q&D with dead lifts added would be the way to go but I’m open to suggestions. I’m completely sold on the timeless approach in S&S.
Welcome, @Jrschade !

Follow SFG Kim Armstrong on Instagram - she has lots of good ACFT prep info using this style of training.
Kim Armstrong-Online Coach (@goingdoingliving) • Instagram photos and videos
 

Molson

Triple-Digit Post Count
Hello comrades, I have a question about training later in the day around 8-10 pm, because somedays my work takes up my entire day and I have no time to train in the mornings or evenings. Is it still healthy to train S&S that late?
A bit late, but:

I had trained 9-10pm for half a year but switched for early morning 5-6 and it was worth it. Better recovery and less problems with falling asleep, especially in the summer.

If you don’t have any problem with the above than you can stay with evenings. But there is a reason it is advised as the worst training time of the day.

If you choose to still do evenings, don’t try to bit the clock,m and don’t abuse heavy weight. Fully calm down after each set. This should keep you away from getting pumped too much.
 

Pocketboy

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Hi everyone, would S&S still keep the size and strengths of your chest and biceps? They don't seem very activated in both movements

Would you recommend any exercise or parallel routine to complement S&S and hit these muscles?

For context:
I've been lifting (for size) for the last 12 years. I've plateaued long time ago and have been less committed to training and nutrition.

I never spent the time to develop strength and I am pretty sure that's why I plateaued. I was extremely interested by Pavel's approach I'm the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and read S&S and quick & dead book. Until now, my approach was the opposite of Pavel's, going to failure again and again in a session. I was convinced by the fact he presented.

I have tried S&S for two weeks (now I'm holiday). My gym only has 20kg max kettlebell, I will have to buy my own or change gym.

So, I'm interested to hear from your experience.

Would you recommend S&S first then move to Quick and Death? I'm looking at building strength and keep decent size, even some recomposition would be great.

Thank you and Merry Belated Christmas and happy new year.
 

Benen_Karski

Triple-Digit Post Count
You could add some chin-ups or curls and pushups at the end of S&S sessions, once or a few times a week. Or even just by grease the groove style throughout the day. I've seen some recommend just a variety day once a week, on a separate day where you could do some chest and bicep training. From my experience, if you have been training consistently for awhile (as you have it seems) and have a decent amount of hypertrophy, it doesn't take much time or direct volume to maintain it. This seems especially true for smaller muscle groups like biceps.

It's recommended to achieve at least the Simple standard before doing Q&D.

If diet and recovery are taken care of, body recomposition while doing S&S is definitely possible.
 

cltoomer

First Timer
Hi,

First time poster here. I plan to start S&S tomorrow and have one question. In between sets, is it okay to drop down and rock back and forth on hands and knees while recovering between sets. I'd rather keep moving than staying stationary.

Thanks,
Chris
 

Tim Randolph

Triple-Digit Post Count
Hi,

First time poster here. I plan to start S&S tomorrow and have one question. In between sets, is it okay to drop down and rock back and forth on hands and knees while recovering between sets. I'd rather keep moving than staying stationary.

Thanks,
Chris
Welcome and good luck on your journey!

Movement between sets is definitely a good thing. The normal convention is on your feet but it’s important to keep the blood moving.
 

Pocketboy

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Or even just by grease the groove style throughout the day. I've seen some recommend just a variety day once a week, on a separate day where you could do some chest and bicep training.
Thank you Benen for this insightful answer. I am not sure that I've read about the grease the groove style (yet) or lacked to notice it. Where did you learn about it? I'd be interested to know more.

I plan on doing the S&S first, without any extra for the first few weeks. I will see how my body reacts to it (strength, endurance, composition and hypertrophy) and see if I'll add a variety day, or a couple of extra targeted exercises.

Any insight as to whether it is recommended to have target exercises in these specific muscle group (ex chest and biceps) as an extra on some S&S day or is it better during off days. Or, if instead, it's better to do a variety day? (Trying to optimize, but if there isn't a strong "case" behind either of these, I'll experiment).

Also, I reckon I have between 1.5 to 3 kg of fat I'd like to get rid off. So, to help this and body recomposition, I was thinking of adding a mild cardio exercise after (each or some... It remains undecided) S&S sessions, around 20 to 30 min of low intensity jog on threadmill (8 or 9km/h). The rational is that I hope to extend that heat from the S&S, burn extra calories, but this speed and duration shouldn't exhaust me or impact my next trainings.
Any suggestion as a way to add cardio to fasten some fat burn, while keeping the S&S or Q&D as the focus (therefore not impacting power and strength)?

Thank you for your time and knowledge. I wish you gals and guys a powerful 2020!
 

Benen_Karski

Triple-Digit Post Count
Pavel wrote about GTG in several books, I believe to include PTTP!, Naked Warrior, and Enter the Kettlebell. I've seen it written about quite a bit on the forum and in StrongFirst articles too.

It sounds like we come from a similar training background. I spent most of the past 11 years training with almost a "PowerBuilder" mentality and slowly became more and more minimalistic as I found less to be more effective and got rid of some of the fluff over the years. I also needed to become more time efficient so minimalist programs became more appealing. I began S&S a few months ago and started off with doing a variety day, but now I'd rather practice the program more frequently and just throw in variety at the end of sessions here and there based on how I feel. Typically it's just 1 or 2 exercises for 1 or 2 sets. So if I do S&S 5-7 days a week, I may add 2 sets of variety at the end 2-4 days a week. Typical exercises may be pushups, pullups, or lunge variants. When I've done variety at the end of a session I haven't noticed any negative benefits or interference when I train again the next day. Possibly because I do pretty low volume and mostly bodyweight/light resistance work for variety. There's plenty of weeks tho where I've done just strict S&S without variety and haven't noticed negative body composition results. I imagine as my weights increase for the S&S training, I'll likely decrease the amount of days I add variety. At that point it may be better to just add a separate day just for variety.
 

Mijatović

First Timer
Hey everyone, i started doing the s&s program 2 weeks ago, im wondering if i can send video of me doing swings just to correct me , i want to do it with the perfect form but im not sure if i do have it with my swings
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
Hey everyone, i started doing the s&s program 2 weeks ago, im wondering if i can send video of me doing swings just to correct me , i want to do it with the perfect form but im not sure if i do have it with my swings
Yes, upload a video to YouTube or some other site, set to public, and post the link in a new forum thread requesting a form check.

A caveat, this won't get you to "perfect form" but can help get you in the right direction and correct any glaring errors. Working with an SFG over several sessions is the best way to really get your form dialed in. That and treat every single session as a practice to improve your swing form, forever.
 

Pocketboy

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Typically it's just 1 or 2 exercises for 1 or 2 sets. So if I do S&S 5-7 days a week, I may add 2 sets of variety at the end 2-4 days a week. Typical exercises may be pushups, pullups, or lunge variants. When I've done variety at the end of a session I haven't noticed any negative benefits or interference when I train again the next day. Possibly because I do pretty low volume and mostly bodyweight/light resistance work for variety.
Thanks, that answer a lot of my questions. Do you do sets of 10reps? Going to failure?

Do you focus on explosive movement during these variety exercises?
 

Benen_Karski

Triple-Digit Post Count
I don't go to failure. Reps are determined just by the amount of resistance I choose that given day and how I feel, but I'm generally leaving plenty of reps in the tank. So sometimes I may do 5 reps, other times I may be using less resistance or feeling more energetic and do 15-20 reps. If it's pushups or a single leg exercise, my reps tend to be a bit higher, 10+ range. I personally don't focus on progressing these variety exercises session to session or anything like that. It's really just fluff and buff stuff, low mental and physical stress from them. My goal currently is to focus on achieving and owning Simple, so everything else is just fun extra movement and not necessary, which is why I reserve the option to do easy variety just once and a while. I don't worry too much about performing each rep with MAX power either. I instinctively am explosive through the concentric portion of most exercises, but I'm not thinking about it much during these variety lifts if that makes sense. I do tend to focus a bit on creating tension and slowing the movements down during the eccentric portion when I do variety though.
 

oukeith1

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Hi all,

I recently read S&S and have been doing the program with a 16 kg bell for a few weeks now.

I’d like to confirm my understanding on the downswing part of the swing.

Are you supposed to actively fire the bell down and behind/above your knees with force?

Or, simply use your lats to “guide” the bell down, which is the word I think Pavel used in the book.

Thanks in advance.

Keith
 
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