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Other/Mixed S&S & Rowing

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Sean Mulcahy

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Adding a rower to my garage gym. Thoughts from the group on smartly combining S&S with LSD (MAF-style) rowing? Goal for 2018 is to lose about 10-15 lbs, and wouldn't mind progressing from the Simple standard (owned for over a year now) to the 36 or 40 kg bell.
 
I rowed freshman year in college. Our winter conditioning was alternating sessions of long, steady distance (5-10km), and intervals such as burst every 500m over 2-3km, or 200m sprints for many sets.

If paired with S&S, I’d say just do 5-7.5km once a week at MAF. Similar advice for running, cycling, or rucking.
 
My MAF work has been primarily 45 minutes on the treadmill three times a week, but I have recently added 5x200m on the Concept 2 Rower. 5x200m at 45 seconds with a 1-to-3 work/rest ratio has found me right at my MAF number. It was added for variety and the hope is that as my conditioning improves that it will progress to 5x250m and so on. I know that this is interval-ish, but I have enjoyed it.
 
I rowed freshman year in college. Our winter conditioning was alternating sessions of long, steady distance (5-10km), and intervals such as burst every 500m over 2-3km, or 200m sprints for many sets.

If paired with S&S, I’d say just do 5-7.5km once a week at MAF. Similar advice for running, cycling, or rucking.

Why only once?
 
Assumed progressing beyond Simple is the goal, with a bit of aerobic work thrown in. If rowing is the main thing, there would be more of that and S&S about twice a week.

Ah, my bad! Im with you on that one! (y)
 
Concept2 has a daily workout (Crossfit actually stole the "Workout of the Day" or "WOD" moniker from Concept2). Workout of the Day

The Concept2 WOD isn't necessarily MAF but it may give you some ideas.

Rowing uses similar muscle groups to swings so if you wanted to add an extra rowing session you could do a session where you row in place of swings, then do TGUs after rowing. Or try working up to 3 days S&S and 3 days rowing. That seems like a lot but since your rowing will be MAF, the intensity will be so low that it really should not interfere with S&S.
 
Adding a rower to my garage gym. Thoughts from the group on smartly combining S&S with LSD (MAF-style) rowing? Goal for 2018 is to lose about 10-15 lbs, and wouldn't mind progressing from the Simple standard (owned for over a year now) to the 36 or 40 kg bell.
Hey @Sean Mulcahy Inuse my rowing basically just as you described.... however instead of rucking I row and I layered in the MAF template and row for time instead of distance while keeping my heart rate in my MAF zone. So to answer specifically I do S+S 5-6 days a week and row from anywhere to 30-45 minuets depending on my time I have available at night... I try to row at least 2-3 a week like this. I completed “Pete’s plan” that is a 24 week free program I got off of Concept 2 website and it is wonderful but there are some long sessions that has long sessions, interval sessions and what I would call maintenance distances that works great!

Hope that helps!
My way isn’t perfect and the “perfect way” but it works for me and my lifestyle.

Good luck!
 
@Sean Mulcahy

I've got some suggestions for you.

As someone who went from 211 pounds May 1, 2017 to 181 by September, 2017 while prepping for SFG II and using MAF training I have a few suggestions for you on your journey. Also, I've been a rower for 20+ years and coached at the collegiate level.

  • Do S&S first in your training sessions. Cardiovascular work like rowing and running will drain your nervous system and you will not have the strength for your S&S sessions. I learned this the hard way this past year. If you do cardio first it's important to space it out by several hours. Morning and Afternoon sessions.
  • Go into the menu on the Concept 2 Ergometer and set the Drag Factor. This should be under options. Click Drag Factor and begin rowing. Heavyweight Males (heavier than 155 by international rowing standards typically row at Drag Factors of 120-130). Do not make the error of going by the number on the side of the machine as this can change over time with wear and tear and debris/dirt that is trapped in the fan.
  • In terms of the MAF training on the ergometer you can do the following: (1) Keep your heart rate at your MAF HR for the distance/time. (2) Warm Up and then do what Maffetone refers to as Aerobic Intervals. Meaning on the ergometer stay at a lower stroke rating (18-22 SPM) and row until you get to your MAF HR then paddle very easy until your heart rate comes back down to 120. Repeat for desired time/distance. Be sure to account for cardiac drift - meaning if your MAF HR is 150 start to go easy around 143-145 as it usually takes the HR monitor a few strokes to catch up to your current heart rate.
I used both of these during my training for SFGII and my ability to recover and sustain a high level of work was excellent.

Hope this helps. Any specific questions feel free to contact me directly at joe@leotraining.io

Good Luck!
 
Cardiovascular work like rowing and running will drain your nervous system and you will not have the strength for your S&S sessions.

Is this correct? Unless you're doing sprints, Prowler purshes, or similar high intensity intervals, cardio activities do not involve the fast-twitch fibers so the impact on the nervous system should be very low. At least that was what I thought. However, your post is otherwise correct. Cardio does produce fatigue which will interfere with strength work, so it is best to do cardio after strength, or split them up into separate sessions.
 
@MikeTheBear

I understand and respect the science. I am sharing my personal experience and what I've learned through my journey and what I've found worked and did not work for me.

Going out for a 45-60 minute run prior to doing a strength session that involved heavy pressing or SFGII skills resulted in me having to terminate the session early or use lighter weights. Those runs were 100% MAF and the intensity was very low. I could sing you a song! Haha. However doing the runs after pressing sessions I was fine.

Trying to gain strength (half bodyweight press) while also simultaneously losing 30 pounds is very fatiguing as they are competing energy systems - so there are multiple factors here. My experience was doing longer pure aerobic work and working close to one's 1RM that this took away from my ability to generate the neural drive to move the heavier bells. That's why prioritizing strength first is important then cardio. I felt this relevant given @Sean Mulcahy was trying to lose 10-15 pounds while also progressing in weight in S&S. Gaining strength while in a caloric deficit is very difficult. Doable but sleep and diet become even more paramount.
 
Folks, I moved this to Training -> Other. Let's keep things are aren't about the details of S&S implementation but rather about other things w/ S&S continuing on in this section. Or, if we need to, I'll make an "S&S + other stuff" section of the forum.

I'm with Leo here, @MikeTheBear. There's a certain point you can get to in weight training close on the heels of an endurance session, but it definitely makes a difference.

-S-
 
@LeoTraining and @Steve Freides I think we are on the same page here. I also agree that doing weights right after a cardio session will make the weights feel like crap. My disagreement was with the reason why this was so. @LeoTraining said it was due to the cardio session draining the nervous system. I don't think endurance training places that big a demand on the nervous system. I would say that it's more a question of local muscular fatigue. Take about a four-hour break and all will be well. In my experience, back when I was in better condition, lifting four or so hours after a run felt just fine. It actually seemed that the workout was better.

But I suppose the reason doesn't matter. Bottom line: weights immediately after cardio = crappy lifting.
 
@MikeTheBear, I'm not so sure. I recall a day when I was moving out of endurance and into strength training but was still training for a marathon. I ran 18 miles in the morning, swam a mile in the early afternoon, and then deadlifted in the late afternoon. I felt OK, muscle wise, just not in the mood to try anything really heavy.

-S-
 
Adding a rower to my garage gym. Thoughts from the group on smartly combining S&S with LSD (MAF-style) rowing? Goal for 2018 is to lose about 10-15 lbs, and wouldn't mind progressing from the Simple standard (owned for over a year now) to the 36 or 40 kg bell.
I really like the rower after S&S or A+A, directly or separated by some time. I usually row around 10km (45min) HR most of the time 120-130bpm (my MAF would be 140). Rowing at my MAF is not easy for me, not to say on a daily basis. In the second half of 2017 I went from 95kg to 85kg and I am still around that weight. When incorporating LSD you will feel better relatively quickly and you will recover better.
 
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