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Kettlebell S&S Total Workout Time

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patterner said:
Not to derail, but instead of saying 180 - Age + 5, isn't it just easier to say 185 - Age?
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The Maffetone formula has a few adjustments; you use them as applicable to the individual. So the + 5 may or may not apply to another person.

I agree with @Kettlebelephant's post above.

@jhpowers, sounds like you're doing things just right.

Chris Beasley said:
in order to "own" a bell, do I need to complete the entire 5 minute swing cycle with a heart rate that follows the same formula?
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IMO, which comes from Al Ciampa's teachings, no.

Chris Beasley said:
"owning" a bell just meant you could complete the five minutes without breaking form or falling apart in any way.
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I would add (from S&S book) that you can do that strongly any day.
 
@Chris Beasley

I probably need to write an article to update this... I started the connection between MAF HR and KB ballistics. It was meant to be a guide for users so that the intensity of regular practice sessions did not get too unhealthy, re: anaerobic. From the beginning, MAF was used as a starting point, not a be all, end all; no s***, do not bust this ceiling sort of marker. Folks needed to dial in from this start point. It was also experiemental, and the experiences of the users on this forum helped sort this out. That was a few years ago.

MAF, or aerobic training using KB ballistics, has since been more thoroughly teased out since then. You don't have to maintain your "MAF" or any other aerobic HR from the steady state world for your repeats, or sets of KB ballistics (the caveat being if your HR does something like hit 250). The point is that you need to recover between sets/repeats on a regular basis... don't worry about the test days.

So, high peaks on your HR track should be followed by low valleys. Your average may or may not settle around MAF, but it will be more or less aerobic.
 
Generally an hour. Two days ago I timed myself on the swings and did them in 7:30 at 32kg. Generally I prefer to rest more so I would do that in closer to 20 minutes. I will also usually extend the break between the swings and the get ups to 5 or 10 minutes (depending on how hard I pushed myself with the swings). The fastest I have done the getups is 9:45 at 32kg. I sort of enjoy the mental clarity that comes from this exertion so I am usually not in a hurry to get it over with. I also try not to push myself beyond what feels like 80% effort. I used to swing the kettlebell as hard and fast as I possibly could getting it up to chin level and would usually completely gas out after 5x10

Normally I give myself a bit more of a break than I think I need.
 
patterner said:
Not to derail, but instead of saying 180 - Age + 5, isn't it just easier to say 185 - Age?
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From what I have read on the numbers the starting point is 180. Digging deeper there are +/- 5s for various reasons. In my case I was using +5 for physical condition and +5 for older age as the sample size is too small for older people. For me the talk test didn't work after a short time practicing S&S so I started using GymBoss on my phone.
 
aciampa said:
So, high peaks on your HR track should be followed by low valleys. Your average may or may not settle around MAF, but it will be more or less aerobic.
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This is a clean HR chart of just the swings. My target HR is 128. I have been thinking the recovery HR at the bottom of a set should be the reference the peak HR is just a few seconds. Endomondo - 7x10 16 kg 07 Feb 2016.jpg
 
Pff ... I swing with 16kg bell two handed, slowly going into one handed swings, and get ups are with 16kg, and one set with 24kg. Takes me between 35 to 45 minutes, including S&S warm-up.
I did a work out the day before yesterday, swinging 24 kg for 3 x 10, after 30' cardio work, and hurt my back. So I am stuck with a lumbago, again! I must be doing something wrong, if all the rest of you guys and galls can juggle 32 and 32+ bells.
Depressing.
 
@Jan , no need for depression! The weights will come. It's a journey for all of us, and we all start somewhere.

Regarding your back: Make sure you are hinging and not bending your back. The cue I like is "show your Superman symbol." Imagine you have that on your chest... you want people to see it, so you keep your shoulders packed and the back straight.
 
@Swann 1 : Thanks for the motivating words :) It's just, I have been physically active whole my life (gymnastics, yoga, ballroom dancing, weightlifting, and now KB), and yet if I overdo something, I get hurt. Just trying to hard I guess.
I took a few lessons with a KB instructor. Apparently my form was good, but I will film my swings and upload it here for comments.
 
Boosh32 said:
This is a clean HR chart of just the swings. My target HR is 128. I have been thinking the recovery HR at the bottom of a set should be the reference the peak HR is just a few seconds. View attachment 1560
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Not quite, @Boosh32

The most important metric is how you feel... how you recover from day to day. If you feel like you are resting a bit too long, then you can start the next set a little earlier than we see in the above session. Try every 90sec and both how your HR track and recovery turns out.
 
Yeah, but you are a beast @Pavel Macek......

Pavel Macek said:
My S&S practice usually takes 30-45 minutes. i do the full SAS warm-up, but I skip the stretches and do them as the last thing the evening.

Anyway, it depends. With a light weight(for me), let's say 36 for get-ups and 40 for swings, I can do it right now with (almost) no rest periods. With my current weights (48 for swings, 44 for get-ups), I usually take longer rest periods, and push harder only once a week, and hard once per two weeks or so.
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@Abdul Rasheed. I saw that on a t-shirt at a travel softball tournament my daughter particpated in a couple of years ago. I loved the saying. The one her state champion HS SB team adopted was almost as good:

Hard work beats talent,
When talent fails to work hard.

Abdul Rasheed said:
@Michael Scott that's a good quote you got on your signature: "Don't be upset by the results you didn't get, with all the work you didn't do". I am stealing it ;)
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In that particular instance, yes. But I think people explain it that way for the following reason.

Technically, the MAF formula is 180 - Age +/- modifier.

Where the modifiers are -10 for recovering from major illness, -5 for lots of more minor things, 0 for consistent training up to 2 years, and +5 for consistent training over two years (without problems). Thus, around here, you mostly see it as 180 - Age + 5.

The 180 Formula: Heart-rate monitoring for real aerobic training. - Dr. Phil Maffetone

EDIT: Whoops - didn't see that @Anna C had already answered this.
 
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Jan said:
Pff ... I swing with 16kg bell two handed, slowly going into one handed swings, and get ups are with 16kg, and one set with 24kg. Takes me between 35 to 45 minutes, including S&S warm-up.
I did a work out the day before yesterday, swinging 24 kg for 3 x 10, after 30' cardio work, and hurt my back. So I am stuck with a lumbago, again! I must be doing something wrong, if all the rest of you guys and galls can juggle 32 and 32+ bells.
Depressing.
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Get strong with the 16KG one handed swings - while the 24KG glares at you. You'll be glaring at it soon enough. Also, get with an SFG if you can. It made a big difference in my swings and TGU form - my low back would be sore sometime before - but never again after. You got this, @Jan !
 
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I'm finding my light days are under 30 minutes, "work" days are 40-45. Variables:
- Not counting stretching. I do that later or just as needed based on how I feel
- Warmup. Light days I do 1x5 halos, 1x5 goblet squats, and lunge position hip flexor stretch. More if needed. Work days I do the full 3x5 of the drills.
- Light day: 1HS at my lighter weight (for technique). Lighter weight for all 1x5/5 TGUs. Less exertion, less rest needed, less time. Light days are 1x/week when I do 3-4 sessions.
- Work day: 2HS with heavier bell (mix of heavy 2HS and lighter 1HS), and 1-2 sets of TGUs with the heavier weight. More exertion, more rest, more time.

I train in the evening, around 7/7:15. I'm usually done and showered by 8 for stretching and couch potato mode.
 
pet' said:
Hello,

@Pavel Macek
How do you manage training when you are not at home or when you are teaching ?
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As I am travelling and teaching very often, I miss some of my S&S sessions of course. If the gym has kettlebells, I usually do a lighter session, and spend more time on untying the airplane chair. No bells available? Superslow shoe get-ups. When I was in China for 3 weeks, I did pistols and one arm pushups form our excellent StrongFirst SFB curriculum. S&S is very flexible.
 
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