Kettlebell S&S variant: get-ups before swings?
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pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
Thank you both - the old thread helps. Power before strength before endurance/cardio. There is a link within that old thread that @Steve Freides says it is required reading, but the link is broken - is it still out there somewhere?
Do swings/snatches follow presses in RoP for that reason - they are endurance/cardio there, not power emphasis as in S&S?
Do swings/snatches follow presses in RoP for that reason - they are endurance/cardio there, not power emphasis as in S&S?
RoP is basically a press program and many of us treat it like this, so the main event, the press, is done first. I cannot speak for the chief, but I think that it was the idea, that swings in ROP were more endurance/cardio.
Personnally, when on RoP, I don't even do swings or snatches on the same day, but rather do them alla S&S on variety days.
(sidenote: @pet' is the encyclopedia of the forum. He can find all old threads!)
Personnally, when on RoP, I don't even do swings or snatches on the same day, but rather do them alla S&S on variety days.
(sidenote: @pet' is the encyclopedia of the forum. He can find all old threads!)
Im out
Level 5 Valued Member
Swings in S&S are Explosive/Power, TGU is a grind. Explosive work always comes before Grinding. I suspect that when you do your TGU's first, they will become a lot easier, but your explosiveness for the swings will suffer greatly.
Yes, I believe the thread you're looking for is this, @Sean M:
Is this right?
Link in old forum posts are dead for the most part because all the URL's are now different. I am, however, more than happy to correct individual cases as they come up. Please confirm that this is what you were looking for.
For anyone techie following along, here's how I found the link - I went to Google and put the following into the Search box:
is this right site:strongfirst.com/community
Google searches differently than the built-in forum search, and it's a very useful adjunct to know about. The built-in forum search prioritizes recent posts, so finding things in the old forum isn't always successful.
@StrongestXen
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Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
That’s it, thanks. I figured there was a good reason for the change in focus/order from ETK to S&S, and it makes sense.
Broken link fixed.
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Ron
First Post
@Steve Freides, the power/strength/endurance distinction between S&S vs. ETK PM is helpful but raises a new question: What if I'm not sure I care about power? I'm a 40-something with a mostly sedentary job, and I have no need for explosive power generation - there's really nothing athletic or "tactical" in my life. I've been doing S&S since beginning of the year and I am approaching, but not quite at, the "simple" goal.
If I'm just interested in general health & fitness, it would seem that strength & endurance are more important than power. (right?) Would that suggest that ETK would be more appropriate for someone in my situation than S&S?
Note: I already bought both books, so it's not an issue of $.
If I'm just interested in general health & fitness, it would seem that strength & endurance are more important than power. (right?) Would that suggest that ETK would be more appropriate for someone in my situation than S&S?
Note: I already bought both books, so it's not an issue of $.
WhatWouldHulkDo
Level 8 Valued Member
Funny, this made me shudder a little. I suppose it's all a question of what you want to do with your "general health & fitness"... but when I think of any physical stuff I really enjoy doing, they all involve speed or explosiveness. Even mundane stuff like getting a heavy box down from a shelf in the garage involves some ballistic movement, like a reverse clean & jerk. I'll grant you that you probably don't need to be able to deliver a rib-shattering punch, but I suggest that living an active life is about generating power.
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I think @Kozushi underlines something important.
If you want to progress for the GU, then, maybe it can be better doing them first, while you are perfectly fresh. Indeed, this move can be "dangerous" : if you are tired or a little sore due to the swings you did just before, it is easier to lose balance while the bell is overhead (for instance). Then, you can fall with the bell.
The reverse is also true, if you want to progress your swings, then, doing them in the first place will ensure you better and faster progression. In all cases, one move can generate some kind of "pre-fatigue" for the 2nd move and interfere with the form of it.
This is a matter of goal. There is nothing wrong with those two exercises, no matter their order, as long as you progress without injury. Anyway,assuming you want to train the GU first, after a while, you'll get confortable with them and you'll be able to do them after the swings.
For a while, this is what I did because I found this safer. It worked pretty well even if this is not "as per the book".
Kind regards,
Pet'
I think @Kozushi underlines something important.
If you want to progress for the GU, then, maybe it can be better doing them first, while you are perfectly fresh. Indeed, this move can be "dangerous" : if you are tired or a little sore due to the swings you did just before, it is easier to lose balance while the bell is overhead (for instance). Then, you can fall with the bell.
The reverse is also true, if you want to progress your swings, then, doing them in the first place will ensure you better and faster progression. In all cases, one move can generate some kind of "pre-fatigue" for the 2nd move and interfere with the form of it.
This is a matter of goal. There is nothing wrong with those two exercises, no matter their order, as long as you progress without injury. Anyway,assuming you want to train the GU first, after a while, you'll get confortable with them and you'll be able to do them after the swings.
For a while, this is what I did because I found this safer. It worked pretty well even if this is not "as per the book".
Kind regards,
Pet'
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
The book says it doesn't matter too much which one you do first, but it recommends doing the swings first because they rely on power, which to me means "more effort". If you're tired already before starting the swings, your swings won't be snappy any more, and they'll turn more into a compromise between swings and high pulls. It is also 100% legit to do the two exercises at different times of the day.
Evidently, it's harder exercise to do the one after the other. My heart rate is already elevated by the swings, so when I do the getups, I keep my heart rate up for another 15 minutes at least, which means I've in total kept my heart rate up for over 35 minutes, which is excellent for heart health!
Evidently, it's harder exercise to do the one after the other. My heart rate is already elevated by the swings, so when I do the getups, I keep my heart rate up for another 15 minutes at least, which means I've in total kept my heart rate up for over 35 minutes, which is excellent for heart health!
I think the idea of owning a weight for a particular movement enters into this picture, too. If you are practicing with a new, heavier weight, then perhaps it's risky business, but hopefully by the time you "own" one weight, the next one isn't too daunting.
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