Question S&S version 2.0 "Die but Do" chapter---??'s / Clarification

crazycanuck

Level 8 Valued Member
I am repeating S&S after at one time reaching the Simple standard using the older version of the book, then doing other sorts of training for a while.

Due to lots of life/schedule/external factors I stepped up sets/weights more slowly than version 2.0 prescribes, and it has taken me a while to get to the goal weights again. Started in August last year, have been using 16kg for getups since early April and all swings one handed 24kg since early July (female here). Generally have been able to keep a 5 day or so a week average for practicing, to ensure good technique on a consistent basis, and now wish to drop to 3-4 x a week and start the training on Fridays for the timed standard.

In my kindle version location 1856 of the "Die but Do" chapter (I think page 195 in paper version of the book), I see the example of a girevichka doing swings of mixed weights with 24kg and 28kg. then dropping to 20kg (the mentioned 4kg drop for women) for the once a week timed Fridays, upping her Friday weight only when all 10 of her sets are 28kg.

Looking at these weights, I am guessing this is a female going for Sinister ultimately. I am really confused by this mention of the mixed weights in swings.

So, why is this example of someone practicing with mixed weight, and still going for "tests" on Fridays/once a week? I thought one was to reach Timeless Simple, and THEN start practicing going for the 5 min swings and 10 min getups, I was set to do this and went back to the book in a bit more depth (not just the summary chapter on this topic), and came across this today when following the recommendation to go back to this particular chapter.

Just wondering if I am missing something here. And, in my situation....to fully clarify.....if I am going for the Timed Simple standard, then .... drop to 3-4x per week, practice for the 10 min swings/5 min getups with a 20kg one handed for swings, 12kg for getups, on Fridays/once per week (unless like book says need deload or stress or whatever)....and then....pick a day with the "real" test weight (24kg/16kg) and go for it? And any suggestions of method? When I did my "Simple test" the first go-around I had, I set my timers for how the test the Strongfirst website describes for people's submissions to meet Sinister (instead of for example just "winging it" and having difficulty with pacing, and hoping my swings came in under 5 min)

Thanks everyone!
 
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Alexander Halford

Level 7 Valued Member
I'll quote and will expand a bit here my post from Antti's log, we were discussing GTG:

For now it's Mrs. Halford, who goes through experiment.
She's a novice in strength training, and she was doing 2H swings for ~10 weeks now. She started with 35 lbs, advanced to 50 lbs in ~3 weeks or so, and last week to 60 lbs.
She works from home, desktop work, and naturally needs to get up and do things sometimes. Usually she's also very tired after the work day, and I saw her struggles often to do her training at the evening. I suggested a GTG - once in an 30-40 minutes she goes for the set of swings, accumulating around 15 sets of 10 by the end of the working day. It's going just for one week, but I already see that HR is lower at her morning runs, and she jumped a bell size very easily, moving from 50 to 60 lbs just in one day, and for what I see, 70 lbs is not too far away. There's no time frame, no intervals, no goal. The only objective - go and swing while you can and feel ok to do so. Enough rest gets you to more progress in weight, pure strength.
I'm not giving a particular answer to your question here, I'm a stranger to precise, to the letter programming...however, knowing a bit your situation, this is a component (pure timeless per se) which you can consider using in your training, pursuing certain standard. It's an another way to bump your swings weights easily.
Mixed weights introduction is a way to make you strong with 28kg timeless, to be strong at 24kg timed. Not much place for a confusion, Brett Jones uses the similar tactics in his SFG1 preparation guide, heavier swings and lighter timed snatches to pass the 5 minutes snatch test - heavy weights adaptation, power endurance adaptation.
Another benefit of GTG - completely stress-free. Means a lot, sometimes more than anything else, to have your training done. You 100% do and don't die.
 

Tim Randolph

Level 6 Valued Member
And, in my situation....to fully clarify.....if I am going for the Timed Simple standard, then .... drop to 3-4x per week, practice for the 10 min swings/5 min getups with a 20kg one handed for swings, 12kg for getups, on Fridays/once per week
That is the plan (with the times reversed for the lifts). The only point that is a little ambiguous is at what point you need to cut your sessions down. If you are doing five timeless sessions now, you can likely do four of those and a test day. It’s when you add weight that it gets tricky. But 3 plus the test day seems to be the consensus.
So, why is this example of someone practicing with mixed weight, and still going for "tests" on Fridays/once a week?
The person has hit timeless but not timed simple. In the same chapter, Pavel talks about adding a “strength reserve”. The idea is that you keep progressing the weight and that will up your capacity for the test. He even goes so far as to recommend that you don’t test at the simple standard until you are a up a bell size over simple on all the sets for a lift.
 
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Papa Georgio

Level 5 Valued Member
So, why is this example of someone practicing with mixed weight, and still going for "tests" on Fridays/once a week? I thought one was to reach Timeless Simple, and THEN start practicing going for the 5 min swings and 10 min getups
V1.0 Had you essentially working up timeless simple whiles simultaneously working towards timed simple by compressing the rests in a practice session every week or so.
V2.0 Has you working up to timeless simple, then the program format changes. You start adding in heavier sets (heavier than simple) into your timeless sessions. Then you do one timed session a week with a bell lighter than your timeless sessions. For instance, if you are swinging a 24kg and mixing in sets of 28kg, then you would do your weekly timed session with a 20kg. By the time you get to swinging the 28kg exclusively for your timeless session, then you would start doing your weekly timed session with the 24kg.
V2.0 features kinder & gentler timed sessions because you are always testing with bells lighter than your timeless session. The trade off for V2.0 is that it will require additional bells over and above whatever timed standard you're chasing.

If the V2.0 timed sessions feels to easy for you with a 20kg, or you don't own a 28kg, I don't see any reason why you can't practice V1.0 style and do your weekly timed (or compressed rest) session with a 24kg.
 

crazycanuck

Level 8 Valued Member
The person has hit timeless but not timed simple. In the same chapter, Pavel talks about adding a “strength reserve”. The idea is that you keep progressing the weight and that will up your capacity for the test. He even goes so far as to recommend that you don’t test at the simple standard until you are a up a bell size over simple on all the sets for a lift.
With how long this has taken me second time around, my eyes bugged out of my head when I read this and that was a bit discouraging, even though I know the book says it would be highly unlikely you would not pass your timed test before all sets became the higher weight. Somehow, though, I can picture Pavel T giving me a smack on the back of the head and saying "Suck it up, buttercup"...

I am not sure I can justify getting the 28kg. Seems very hard to find online at the moment, but I do have some local leads I can check this week.

I can swing a 32kg 2 handed, but would need a fair bit of rest between sets. Anyone know if this would be a worthwhile option or am I just wasting my time?


I do feel a bit tired and burned out at the moment, so the compressed tests work on Fridays using the working weight (24kg) sounds a bit daunting today.
 

Alexander Halford

Level 7 Valued Member
I can swing a 32kg 2 handed, but would need a fair bit of rest between sets. Anyone know if this would be a worthwhile option or am I just wasting my time?
Worthwhile in my opinion. Even trying 2-3 reps one-handed.


I do feel a bit tired and burned out at the moment, so the compressed tests work on Fridays using the working weight (24kg) sounds a bit daunting today.
Doing that with 20kg sounds a better option for you now.
 
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