Question S&S versus Naked Warrior - which is better for what?

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
To me there is no doubt that Naked Warrior develops more strength, since drastically far more weight is being loaded onto the limbs in the exercises. However, I've gone with S&S in the long term because (1) it's much easier to do, (2) has an excellent cardio conditioning component, and (3) involves the practical strength of actually gripping and picking things up - a strength that is needed all the time in the real world.

To give an idea of the difference, I am doing S&S at the 40kg level right now but I cannot do a full one armed pushup nor a full pistol squat! Being 100kg myself, doing a one armed pushup places 70kg on one arm, which is far above my S&S weight.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

To a certain extent, you can easily make bodyweight moves as hard as weighted moves, or even harder. For instance, placing yourself in a doorframe and mimic a press. This is sure you will put 100% tension, while not moving. Gymnasts are just incredibly strong, powerful, endurant, mobile and flexible despite mainly bodyweight routines.

I can do OAC and OAOL PU but I can not press the 32 yet (I weigh 60-61, press 30)

Maybe there is a kind of threshold : when one exceed a certain weight, maybe lifting becomes easier. Under this threshold, maybe bdw moves are easier.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Antti

Level 8 Valued Member
I have recently thought about the pistol and how useful it is in the Real World (tm). The same can apply for the one arm push up. I thought about putting out a thread about them, but this is as good a place as any for the discussion.

In my experience, the goals in the Naked Warrior are more akin to feats of strength and skill instead of useful exercises in their own right - when compared to bilateral exercises of the same kind with variable weights. That said, the NW was artificially limited to training without any kind of equipment. If it was not so, I am certain we would, at the very least, have a pull-up in it.

For a layman, I would go S&S any day of the week.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

NW works a lot the balance because you naturally have to handle some odd positions with pistols and OAOL PU. I consider this book as a very long run program. You can hit a pistol @70 yo. 40kg GU @70 can be another story. This is almost like yoga move: a good mix between strength and balance / flexibility using bdw only.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
IMHO, the original question might better be framed as, "What's better, a strength program or a strength-and-conditioning program?" Naked Warrior is a strength program. S&S is a strength-and-conditioning program.

-S-
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

"What's better, a strength program or a strength-and-conditioning program?"
I think that if we consider this question, we have to compare things of the same category. NW does not have a conditioning part because it is a strength only program.

As an example, I would compare NW + Swings (as described in the book FAQ) to S&S. To a certain extent, I would say that calisthenics, such as NW and also other moves such as HSPU / freestanding HSPU, etc... can also provide great strength.

In all cases, there is a skill concern. One can pass 4 or 5 pressese with 1/2 bdw, but not being able to do a single free standing HSPU.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Antti

Level 8 Valued Member
Even if a pistol or the push-up is harder to do per se than the TGU, does not mean that they teach more strength. I find their strength skill much more specific than that of the TGU, and therefore of less use.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I found the pistol a great help in hiking - it made my hiking feel so much lighter! Also, I found it a help in kicking. Having said that, the goblet squat and even swings are helpful for hiking and are much much easier to do for a workout!

The fact that I can press a 32kg kettlebell without too much torture, several times in a row for several sets and get stronger while the one arm pushup is a very hard labour will make me default to kettelbells over pushups whenever kettlebells are available of the right weight for pressing strength development.
 

Antti

Level 8 Valued Member
I found the pistol a great help in hiking - it made my hiking feel so much lighter! Also, I found it a help in kicking.
Do you have any experience with barbell front squats or back squats? Just wondering if it was a heavy squat that helped you more than the S&S movements, or specifically the pistol.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Do you have any experience with barbell front squats or back squats? Just wondering if it was a heavy squat that helped you more than the S&S movements, or specifically the pistol.
No, I have no meaningful experience with barbell squats at all.

The pistol develops the strength to crouch down as low as needed on just one leg. When we walk and hike we are loading all our weight onto one leg, not both simultaneously. I found this a big help walking through the mountainous terrain in Korea last summer. In previous visits to Korea before I knew anything about Strong First programmes, hiking was a LOT harder for me.

While I don't find the goblet squat to develop anything close to the strength in the legs that the pistols do, I still think it is a nice compromise between convenience and effectiveness, the pistol being hard to maintain. I don't regularly do squats nor one arm pushups these days - kettlebells give me what I need.

In my myopic opinion, kettlebell swings are good for forward propulsion in walking and running but not for taking deep steps. Squats are good for the deep stepping aspect of walking. Overall I think squats are a better exercise for locomotion. Swings are much better for conditioning for lifting things.
 

Antti

Level 8 Valued Member
I've found that bilateral squats have really helped me move better. For example, in my earlier job, I had to walk around in a squatting position and I could do it easily for a long time. I do not have significant experience hiking around mountains so I can't comment on it.

I think that regular goblet squats are more of a mobility drill than a strength movement. I wouldn't personally put all my squat eggs in that basket alone.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I've found that bilateral squats have really helped me move better. For example, in my earlier job, I had to walk around in a squatting position and I could do it easily for a long time. I do not have significant experience hiking around mountains so I can't comment on it.

I think that regular goblet squats are more of a mobility drill than a strength movement. I wouldn't personally put all my squat eggs in that basket alone.
Yes, it's too little weight, but mobility strength is something at least.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Maybe some folks will naturally reap more benefits from pistol / OAOL PU and other from swing / TGU due to their constitution. Plus, daily activities of each person are different, so they can be targetted by some specific moves.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
It seems quite ironic to me that the scariest weight to lift is one's own body! Kettlebells are just so much easier than one hand pushups or pistols!
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@Kozushi
If I remember correctly, you weigh about 100. So a pistol is more or less like squatting 200 on both legs. It is more than acceptable IMO ! :)

In general, I noticed that strongly built people, as you are, are stronger to moving stuff (from a fixed stuff). Nonethelss, lighter people have less difficulties to move themselves (from a fixed point).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Hello,

@Kozushi
If I remember correctly, you weigh about 100. So a pistol is more or less like squatting 200 on both legs. It is more than acceptable IMO ! :)

In general, I noticed that strongly built people, as you are, are stronger to moving stuff (from a fixed stuff). Nonethelss, lighter people have less difficulties to move themselves (from a fixed point).

Kind regards,

Pet'
I think this logic also works for goblet squats (since I find the pistol quite a chore!) Using the 40kg bell and doing goblet squats, I'm squatting 140kg total for a number of reps in a row. I think that's a pretty decent and useful exercise that helps with lots of things in life.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Top Bottom