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Kettlebell Secret Service Snatch Test - Training protocol

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Craig P

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Afternoon,

This forum is incredible so keep up the great content and nuggets of knowledge!

I've set myself a few mini goals recently. The most recent one I achieved last month which was 20 TGU in 20 mins with the 40kg...I decided that was a suitable target to 'earn' myself a 44kg bell.

My latest goal is to hit the SSST criteria with 200 snatches in 10 mins (24kg).

I've not set any time goals to achieve this as I'm working alongside my regular foundational training, and I am in no rush. However I've been chipping away nicely with:

10R on 60 secs
10L on 60 secs
For 10mins

Then adding a rep every other week. Last week I hit 15 reps each side every 60 secs with success.

However I found my grip working hard (which I expect) and was clearly glycolytic - breathing harder, heart rate > MAF, heavier legs.

My concern is that this will not be a sustainable method to train beyond a few more weeks. I mean in relation to leaning heavily on the glycolytic system ( for an extended period of time), which we know can be damaging to recovery.

I'm unsure whether to continue with this format or deploy a A & A approach along the lines of 15 secs work, 45 secs rest with extended volume...Doing this would mean at least 40 mins session time to complete 200 reps.

What approaches has anyone else taken to succeed with the SSST?

I haven't tested yet but I knocked out 120 snatches unbroken in 5.30 mins 3 weeks ago and definitely had more in the tank, although probably not another 80 (at the moment). So I'm not ready yet!

My other consideration is to perform glycolytic intervals with long rests along the lines of 20 reps R, rest 5 mins, 20 reps L rest 5 mins etc.

Thanks for reading,
Craig.
 
Perhaps do 2 weeks of A+A then 1 week of intervals. After a few cycles, retest.
 
A decade and change back, I was an avid practitioner of Kenneth Jay's "Viking" protocols, which meant (for me) every other day or so I would be snatching the 24k for 36 seconds on/36 seconds off, for as long as I could hit the target of 19 reps per iteration.

Within a few months, the rounds had entered the 30s per training session, and I turned in a personal best SSST score of 262.

KJ's methods seem to have fallen out of favor over the years, and while there are probably more sophisticated ways to achieve your snatch test goals, I see no reason why this simple approach won't still deliver the goods.
 
Congrats on the 20 TGU's! 40kg is no joke. Especially the get down.

There are 3 things to consider
1. Conditioning, do you have the cardiovascular ability to do it.
2. Strength, can your grip hold up and do you have the shoulder stability.
3. Form. Form and more form. If your drop isn't perfect, you're one bad rep from a blister.

First thing I would do is the 10 minute test. How many can you do now? You need to know how unpleasant the experience is. Can you do 100 in 5?

A good way to train is 20 minutes of 5, 5 at the top of each minute a couple times per week.
Once you succeed in doing it a couple of times, try shaving 5 seconds off each set. So instead of starting a set every minute, start the set every 55 seconds and proceed.
Or 10, 10 rest a minute, do 10 sets. Once successful, try reducing the rest periods.

The other thing I would say, is learn to pace and rest without putting the bell down. Fatigue makes cowards of all of us. Try to go as long as possible without putting the bell down. Because once you put it down, you'll keep putting it down more. To me that was a key point in my failure to achieve it.

Good luck. My all time best was 160, which I did when I was 44. I'm 50, that's a young man's game right there. I've finally accepted that my snatch bell is now a 45. I tested for 5 minutes last week and got 108.
 
All great stuff here so far. I train for the TSC snatch test and once I hit a wall with my capacity. I would go one bell up in an A+A type fashion and 1 bell down in a giant ladder type fashion. This has yielded me over 100 snatches with the 32kg in 5 min. If you can snatch the 28kg or 32kg for big sets, how do yiuvthing the 24kg will feel?
 
Good job on the Get Up's!

Isn't the SSST a test? So if we look at it the same way as Simple or Sinister; the bulk of the training should be to just do the volume and every once in a while you do the test, every 4-8 weeks from ETK?

Simple & Sinister + Heart Rate Training | StrongFirst

I would do 20 sets of 10 snatches and wait in between untill my heartrate drops enough to complete the talk test. From there, do a test every couple of weeks to see where you at?
 
Thanks for all the replies, some great tips and knowledge from everyone. Sometimes just listening to others (instead of listening to your inner dialogue) confirms what you already know, but didn’t pay enough attention to.

As a few of you have mentioned, this is no different to S and S, and the idea should be to build the volume before condensing the rest periods. I am happy with where I have got to with my approach so far but I know it is not sustainable for too much longer.

I like 2 ideas that have been presented:
1) get used to hitting 200 reps in a format, with generous rests, and then start condensing the total time
2) add a second session incorporating reps with the one or two weights up in a A and A approach.

Currently I only perform snatches once per week and it is in the second half of my session. If this is to become my priority then I need to make it a priority in my training too.

BrianCF - thank you. In answer to your questions, I am happy with my conditioning and am confident I can perform 100 in 5 mins almost any day. However, since I have not built my volume up close enough to 200, and have been squeezing the rest periods, my grip becomes and issue towards the end of the set, which has an inevitable knock on form. Totally agree in relation to always being a rep away from a blister or ripped hand too.

I think I know how to proceed with this now.

Thanks for all the help. I will be back once I have completed the goal :)
Craig

PS Kyle - 100 at 32kg in 5 minutes - respect!!
 
I'd suggest making the bulk of your work snatching 28 or 32. Have you attended Strong Endurance? What's your rep max(ish) with 24kg?
 
I'd suggest making the bulk of your work snatching 28 or 32. Have you attended Strong Endurance? What's your rep max(ish) with 24kg?

I am going to Strong Endurance in June. I can't wait for that!! Last week I added in some A and A snatches with the 32...5 per minute...it felt good. So I will keep going with this.

I haven't actually tested my rep max. I can 'comfortably' hit 100 in around 4.15/30 ish, and 2 weeks ago I hit 150reps in 10 mins with a 15 reps per minute EMOM approach. So I don't think I would be far off 200 if I tested now - I just know it would get ugly and I want to test confidently rather than scrape through.
 
I am going to Strong Endurance in June. I can't wait for that!! Last week I added in some A and A snatches with the 32...5 per minute...it felt good. So I will keep going with this.

I haven't actually tested my rep max. I can 'comfortably' hit 100 in around 4.15/30 ish, and 2 weeks ago I hit 150reps in 10 mins with a 15 reps per minute EMOM approach. So I don't think I would be far off 200 if I tested now - I just know it would get ugly and I want to test confidently rather than scrape through.
Getting stronger with a heavier weight will make the 24 feel like a toy. Good that you're practicing with a 32.
 
Getting stronger with a heavier weight will make the 24 feel like a toy. Good that you're practicing with a 32.

Making an educated guess that if you can snatch the 32 for sets of 10 on the minute switching sides each round for 24-26 minutes, you may have the ssst in the bag or be within striking distance
 
A decade and change back, I was an avid practitioner of Kenneth Jay's "Viking" protocols, which meant (for me) every other day or so I would be snatching the 24k for 36 seconds on/36 seconds off, for as long as I could hit the target of 19 reps per iteration.

Within a few months, the rounds had entered the 30s per training session, and I turned in a personal best SSST score of 262.
That's a pretty awesome number, Jason.

I think the reason this kind of training has fallen of favor is that it's tough on the body and mind - if you can complete it, it's great, and you're an example of that. AG/A+A training is an alternative approach. You'd like go for goal total volume or even more but spaced out with lots of rest so you stay out of the red zone, and then as you adapt, you'd reduce the rest periods somewhat in training and you'd be able to reduce them a lot leading up to and during the test.

-S-
 
@Craig P , Strong Endurance will change your perspective on endurance training for sure and it is good that you will attend it.

In the meantime, I like your straight forward approach with completing the SSST and maybe you could stay at it and make a few simple changes:

1. Wave the load (in this case number of reps). Let's say you do your snatches three times a week, you could do it this way:
Monday 10 sets x 10 reps
Wednesday 10 sets x 11 reps
Friday 10 sets x 12 reps
Next Monday you can start with 10 sets of 11 reps, or you can slow down the progression and repeat the same number of reps next week...

2. Cycle. So, after you reached your near maximum, let's say it is 10 sets x 17 reps (170 snatches in 10 minutes), you should go back 4-5 reps per minute. It will not be sustainable to lineary progress every two weeks with a rep without and you will overtrain and exaust your body too much. So when you reach your near max you should really take a few steps back.

3. Regarding your grip, it is surely getting stronger and more durable with snatching, so it will get even stronger. But, if you have the time and energy, maybe you could include some heavier weights once a week. Let's say some heavy one arm swings. In this case it would be better to reduce snatching to two times a week...
 
@Craig P , Strong Endurance will change your perspective on endurance training for sure and it is good that you will attend it.

In the meantime, I like your straight forward approach with completing the SSST and maybe you could stay at it and make a few simple changes:

1. Wave the load (in this case number of reps). Let's say you do your snatches three times a week, you could do it this way:
Monday 10 sets x 10 reps
Wednesday 10 sets x 11 reps
Friday 10 sets x 12 reps
Next Monday you can start with 10 sets of 11 reps, or you can slow down the progression and repeat the same number of reps next week...

2. Cycle. So, after you reached your near maximum, let's say it is 10 sets x 17 reps (170 snatches in 10 minutes), you should go back 4-5 reps per minute. It will not be sustainable to lineary progress every two weeks with a rep without and you will overtrain and exaust your body too much. So when you reach your near max you should really take a few steps back.

3. Regarding your grip, it is surely getting stronger and more durable with snatching, so it will get even stronger. But, if you have the time and energy, maybe you could include some heavier weights once a week. Let's say some heavy one arm swings. In this case it would be better to reduce snatching to two times a week...

Strong Endurance has already greatly impacted my approach to training. I have even convinced a few work colleagues (pt) to buy in to it, and they have noted their own successes and passed the anti glycolytic mindset on to their clients, which is fantastic..

I am already thinking how/if I can apply the same approach to my rowing training (I compete at Indoor Rowing ) , but since it is a 6 minute event, it leans heavily on the glycolytic system - so that's a whole new topic.

All the approaches that have been suggested make perfect sense. Since my original post I have updated my training program so that I am snatching twice per week.

One session is A and A format using the 32kg. For the second session, I am using the test weight (24kg) and pushing the sets higher, with long rest periods ie 20 right 20 left - then active rest 3 to 5 mins (via assault bike - nasal breathing only). I complete 5 rounds of this for 200 reps.

My grip endurance has definitely benefited from the high volume sets, and boosted my confidence. I think my strategy will be to aim for 12 to 15 reps per arm giving me a nice buffer.

After reading these great replies I am now fancying testing my snatches tomorrow. If I pass then I'm happy, and if I miss then it will give me a clearer indication of how much more work I need to put in.

@Mark Limbaga , your suggestion about 10 reps of the 32kg for 20 - 25 mins is another goal to add to my growing list! Training is never dull!!

I will update again once I've tested.

Cheers,
Craig
 
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I am already thinking how/if I can apply the same approach to my rowing training (I compete at Indoor Rowing ) , but since it is a 6 minute event, it leans heavily on the glycolytic system - so that's a whole new topic.

You can apply several of the templates that you will learn at Strong Endurance to rowing. In short, most of your training shouldn't be glycolytic even if you compete in a way that pushes you into glycolysis. There are positive adaptations that can come from some glycolysis, however.

In the meantime, to do something similar to the repeats that you are currently using, simply push close to a maximum effort for about 15 seconds and rest sufficiently before going again. Sufficiently, here, means that each repeat should look the same. As others have said, waving the volume is a good idea. You might start around, 10 repeats and build towards 30. I feel like there is a lot of overlap in the muscles used in rowing and the kettlebell snatch so I'm not sure how you should handle your weekly load.
 
You can apply several of the templates that you will learn at Strong Endurance to rowing. In short, most of your training shouldn't be glycolytic even if you compete in a way that pushes you into glycolysis. There are positive adaptations that can come from some glycolysis, however.

In the meantime, to do something similar to the repeats that you are currently using, simply push close to a maximum effort for about 15 seconds and rest sufficiently before going again. Sufficiently, here, means that each repeat should look the same. As others have said, waving the volume is a good idea. You might start around, 10 repeats and build towards 30. I feel like there is a lot of overlap in the muscles used in rowing and the kettlebell snatch so I'm not sure how you should handle your weekly load.

Yes agreed, on the rowing programmes I have followed the largest component is always UT1 and UT2 which are both aerobic development. The closer to race day the more the Anaerobic Threshold and then VO2 max gets ramped up, which both carry lactic side effects.

It is no different to what people such as @Al Ciampa have been saying for a long time now, the glycolytic energy system only really needs to be tuned up for about 8 to 10 weeks prior to an event. Anymore than that and my body / mind will likely plateau.

In terms of application of Strongfirst theory to rowing training, I am greatly benefiting from long rests between intervals which is what Pavel highlighted in his Long Rest article. Prior to this I tended to condense the rest periods as I thought it was better to be able to tolerate an acidic environment.

Craig
 
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So this morning I decided to test my 10 min snatches with the 24kg. I wanted to still train my foundational moves in my session so I did the test after some sled sprints, kettlebell squats and loaded hyperextensions (these also served as a good primer for the snatches).

My tactic...to switch hands every 13 reps, until i completed a block of 52 reps and then rest the remainder of 2.5 minutes. Then to repeat this block 3 more times for a total of 208 reps in 10 minutes.

Why this tactic? I was not aiming for maximal reps, simply to complete the SSST. 13 reps per arm gave me a nice buffer (well below my threshold per arm) and 4 sets of this meant I had over 25% of the total reps completed.

I chalked up my fingers and then put the residual chalk on the handle. This was later to cause me problems.

I started the test unsure of how i would feel in the second half. All was going swimmingly at half way. I felt strong. I was cruising along nicely until 8 minutes (breathing hard but it was rhythmic and under control, my shoulders and grip felt strong). Then just after 8 mins I felt the skin on the left hand starting to pull, and at the 9 minute mark I felt my hand become wet and slippy - I knew I had formed and burst a blister or two (I think this was mostly due to my amateurish chalk application, since it had now worked it's way all over my left hand).

I had felt strong up to this point and i was determined not to let this throw me off my goal. I decided to finish the last 23 reps all on my right hand, rather than risk losing my grip with the left hand. My right arm started to fatigue, and form dropped a little, but I stopped the clock around 09.55 with a total of 203 reps.

I was pleased to have hit my goal but frustrated that I had to deviate from my plan and lose a few reps. However, this was my first 10 minute test. Lessons learned from this:

1) Be careful with chalk application. As much as it can help you, it can also screw snatches up.
2) High volume practice sets e.g. 20R 20L with long rests really did help with endurance and mental fortitude. This with A and A heavy snatches are a great complement to one another.
3) If I had tested in another 4 weeks - on my current program - I am confident I could add another 10 to 20 snatches to my total
4) Strongfirst is both an excellent community and a wealth of experience and knowledge.

Thanks for all the input.
Craig

Ps my mate (fellow SFG 1) wanted to take a picture of my hand. I'm sure some of you can relate to this in your snatching endeavours.
 

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It is no different to what people such as @Al Ciampa have been saying for a long time now, the glycolytic energy system only really needs to be tuned up for about 8 to 10 weeks prior to an event. Anymore than that and my body / mind will likely plateau.
And for most mortals not competing at higher levels, 2-4 weeks works well.
 
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