Seeking advice on training

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by Dekapon, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    37 year old man, 180cm and 140kg (obese) from Sweden.
    Started S&S about two months ago. I've lost only 1kg of weight but dropped almost two pant sizes and gone from a 16kg kettlebell to swing and press a 32kg. And my favorite hoodie is starting to feel tight around the shoulders...

    My training:
    Brisk 30min walk before breakfast every day.
    100 one arm Swings, 10 prying goblet squats, 10 military press (all with 32kg) in the evening, 5 times a week.
    Stretching in bed before i go to sleep.

    I can't really do TGU because I train outside and don't really have anywhere to lay down. If I don't want to lay down in the mud/snow on the rocky forest floor that is. But when i train at my girlfriends place (she has a small gym in her garage) I do TGU's with a 24kg, but only once a week. But come spring I should be able to do them at home without ruining my clothes. :)

    I mostly eat home baked whole wheat spelt-bread with some protein and vegetables. Stopped eating sugar 1 month ago.
    • Mackerel in tomato sauce on bread
    • Rice, green lentils, carrots, onions, chorizo, garlic, herbs (all cooked in one pot) with hot sauce and a lot of raw shredded cabbage
    • cottage cheese, leeks, dill, (swedish) caviar on bread
    • hummus, pickled vegetables, halluomi, olives on flat bread
    • grilled chicken + grilled vegetables+(a little) cream sauce (no bread or potatoes)
    • eggs / omelette with parmesan and chili (usually 3eggs on one piece of bread)
    Any tips about optimizing my training?
    Should I try running in the morning instead of walking? (might be hard on my knees but...)
    Should I build a pull-up bar and try to do some pull-ups to compensate the tgu? (I can't do one single pull-up, but I could try negatives, hanging and the "reverse push-up"-thing)
    Or try upping my swings+presses to 6-7 days a week?
    I'm planning to do "Simple" by mid-February, is that realistic?

    Typical winter on the west coast of Sweden.
    freeflowme, masa, Waryrenn and 4 others like this.
  2. PaulAtreides

    PaulAtreides Triple-Digit Post Count

    Welcome to the Forum Dekapon!
    Congratulations for your courage to start training hard at your weight and age, and your achievements with Kettlebells, keep it up.

    I've coached my cousin down to 85kg from 120kg within 3-4 years, he started at age ~29, now he's ~32. he's also 180cm in height.
    The hardest part was getting past his fear of "already being to old" and never ever making it, seeing your efforts so far, I don't think you're lacking in that department. Power to you!è

    I'm neither Strongfirst certified nor a doctor, but I can tell you it's more than just your knees that will suffer from running at your current weight. It's also hard on your spine and your hips. you might impinge/inflame your sciatic nerve when running at that weight and that can put you out of your training for weeks or even months (talking from my own experience here).
    In my opinion you shouldn't even think about running until you're down at 100kg.
    instead, buy a good jumping rope (either a speed rope [example] or a heavy pvc thaiboxing rope [example], both have their own ups and downsides) - similar benefits to running, but much lower impact if you have decent technique. I made my cousin work out with a heavy thai rope and he made very good progress.

    Yes absolutely, buy a sturdy pull-up bar, if you have enough space and can afford it! also, while you're on it, buy a good dipping belt and gymnastics rings, they make your pull-up bar a hell of a training machine.
    it's the first exercise I made my cousin learn in the beginning of his journey back to good physical fitness, in fact it's still 90% of what he does in terms of strength training. It took him a couple of months until he could do his first pull-up, now he can do 10+
    At your weight, starting with dead hangs until you reach 20-40seconds would be awesome. That's going to develop a ton of grip strength at 140kg.
    I've never tried Aussie pull-ups ("reverse push-ups"), but they're supposed to be great for beginners, especially with rings because difficulty can easily adjusted by changing heights.

    Here's how my cousin got his first pull-up:
    Dead Hangs ~30sec > negatives > negative frenchie pull-ups (stop for a couple of seconds in the top position, and in the middle of your descent) > weighted negatives and frenchies > First real unassisted pull-up.

    I think your choice of foods is pretty good, it's all healthy and you're getting all the macronutrients you need.
    In terms of weight loss, you should try two things:
    1. lower your general nutrition density. not all foods yield as many calories as are burnt while digesting them. careful with those eggs and cheeses. also, try eating more of your veggies raw, as cooking makes them easier to digest (thus more dense in calories)
    2. Try intermittent fasting (8:16, 4:20, or something in-between). I haven't seen any whopping results with intermittent fasting per se, BUT: It teaches you to really distinguish when you're just a little bit hungry (which can be ignored) and when you're actually starving (which needs to be taken seriously). This is an important lesson for all weight loss endeavours. Even if you just do it for 1-3 months, you'll learn an important lesson.
    Who knows, you might lose some weight simply by intermittently fasting. if not, you'll know when and how many meals you can skip, so you can skip meals on somewhat of a regular basis. the sum of your meals skipped over the course of a year can make a couple Kilogrammes of difference in weight loss.
    3. drink mostly water, tea and coffee without sugar or milk. There are tons of calories in all kinds of drinks, and they're easily digested (which of course is good for weight gain but not so good for weight loss).

    My cousin has lost most of his weight with a meal plan like this, and he's been doing this for the last couple of years, non-stop (his only "cheat days" are birthdays, Christmas and New Year's).
    - no breakfast
    - 1 protein shake or 3 fried eggs
    - Normal dinner with the family. eating to good satiety but not much further.

    edit: I think it's actually called "caloric density", not "nutrition density" (and I've somewhat put caloric density and another concept [don't know what it's actually called] into the same basket) but you probably got the point anyway...
    hope that was helpful at all :)
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  3. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    Okay, now it's official, my red hoodie has become too tight around the shoulders for me to do swings and presses comfortably in it. Can't wait until spring when I can train outside in my underwear and shower with my solar-shower (black garden hose in a insulated window frame turned south).

    I indulged myself on christmas eve and christmas day and didn't say no to anything, felt a little sluggish but kept up with my daily walks and trained a few times, including on christmas eve before driving to christmas dinner with the family. But new years eve I thought I could treat myself again and bought some candy, chocolate and crisps. And after eating it I started to feel really bad! My heart started pounding, felt sick and dizzy. I wondered if I was having a heart attack or had taken som amphetamine or something. No, I had just eaten sugar. :eek: After the "sugar high" had settled I felt really bad and depressed, so sad I hadn't felt in a long while. Sugar is a god damn depression simulator!
    So... no more sugar in januari, and maybe then I'll have one cheat meal, not a whole cheat day, because I know I will just feel awful.

    Now I'm back on my diet and trying to train 3 days in a row and rest one day. Always doing the morning walks.

    I'm thinking about "skipping" one meal per day and replacing it with a protein shake and eating just a a little more calories the other two meals for a while.
    masa, Michael Scott and PaulAtreides like this.
  4. PaulAtreides

    PaulAtreides Triple-Digit Post Count

    Woah! never heard of that before, sounds like me after a pub crawl after months of complete sobriety... just how much sugar did you have :eek:?

    I don't want to be "that guy", but did you ever check if you're at risk for diabetes? My knowledge may be outdated or wrong altogether, but I think obesity is a big risk factor... My grandfather had diabetes despite living a really healthy life (soccer practice 2-3x a week in his late 60's), always in very good shape (if his cancer hadn't taken him down, he'd probably still outrun me), and I remember he had massive mood swings related to dietary carbs. I don't know exactly if/how diabetes would impact your training, but you might want to get yourself checked.
  5. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    Thank you for your concern. I've tested myself for diabetes (at a real doctor, not online) about every two years since I was 26. Might go and test myself soon again, but I don't think I have any of the more concerning symptoms like mood swings, numb limbs, wounds that don't heal or loss of eyesight. But I might have diabetes every time I'm thirsty. :confused:
    If I would put a diagnosis on myself it would be sugar addiction and depression. But my weight does put me in the risk zone for type 2 diabetes. Figured I'd stop before I got it.

    I read an interview with a Swedish celebrity a while back when he talked about his pill addiction. It started with 1-2 pills a day but after a few years he could take a whole bottle of pills everyday, he then decided to stop and went "cold turkey" a few months. Then, while cleaning his house, he found an unopened pill bottle hidden away. He fell off the wagon and took the whole bottle and ended up in the hospital and nearly died!
    I guess there's a lesson in there somewhere. :rolleyes:

    I had 100g of milk chocolate, about 400g of wine gums, grilled chicken and 100g of crisps on my bender on new years.
    PaulAtreides likes this.
  6. PaulAtreides

    PaulAtreides Triple-Digit Post Count

    It's great that you're both regularly checking yourself for diabetes and tackling your sugar cravings on your own, and getting into shape. Sugar addiction (or pretty much any addiction, even videogames) and depression go hand in hand, one can easily lead to the other and vice-versa, a vicious cycle.

    Apart from the little tweaks I've mentioned in my first post, I think you're going down the best path there is.
    Stay strong, and become even stronger!
    Dekapon likes this.
  7. DCM

    DCM Triple-Digit Post Count

    Welcome Dekapon. Great to read about your training and progress.

    I think you are on the right track with what you are doing. It makes sense that you've seen body shape changes without much weight loss because you are probably gaining heavy muscle in addition to losing fat. If it were me, I would avoid both running and pull-ups at this point - an injury (shoulder/elbow with pullups, back, knees with running) at this point would be a major set back. S&S (especially when you are able to add TGU in Spring) plus cardio in the form of walking plus clean eating is a great combination. Rowing machine and swimming are other good cardio ideas.

    I bet time and progression to higher weights will both lead to continued results.
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  8. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    So, I went for a check up today and I have NO DIABETES! My blood value was "perfect" at 7 "something" and apparently you're not at risk until way above 12.
    And I felt mighty strong and muscular indeed when she tested my blood pressure and complained the strap wouldn't fit around my arm. Until she realized she had the one meant for children and went and got the one made for adults... :oops:

    I've noticed my food bills have gone down about $70/€60 a month because of my lack of cookies, sweets, chocolate and other poison in my shopping cart. Spending the money on fresh herbs, organic meat and vegetables instead. Good for me and the environment. :D

    DCM: I'm taking it slow with the running and pull-ups. No running apart from a few sprints uphill in the morning if I'm cold during my morning walks. I've built a simple pull-up bar but using it only for stretching/hanging/grip training. I agree the risk of injury is to high right now. But fun to have a pull-up bar. Thinking of building some "monkey bars" come spring, my regular clothes lines always get damaged when it storms so a combined gym/laundry rack right outside my front door may be ideal.

    I've now dropped about 2kg since mid-December.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  9. PaulAtreides

    PaulAtreides Triple-Digit Post Count

    It's funny how everytime you cut something bad out of your life, you end up with around a hundred bucks more in your pocket at the end of each month (fast food, sweets, junk food in general, alcohol, cigarettes). 60 euros is around 5kg of quality whey protein if you buy it in the right place :)
    Michael Scott, DCM and Dekapon like this.
  10. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    I managed to get room for TGU's on my "building site" (the cabin/shed I'm fixing up here at home). The ground is damp, dirty, cold and not particularly flat. I shifted away some rocks and lay down a OSB-board. It's not flat but when I lay down it doesn't move. So no more excuses!

    But... Even though I can press a 32kg in sets of 5 and the swings with the 32kg are starting to feel, if not easy, at least manageable, I struggle to do get-ups with 24kg and have gone down to doing them with 16kg. =/
    Thinking it's part technique and my weight that's making them difficult. My 140kg+24kg is a lot of kilos to get up from the floor. I can do a get up fine on my right side but I keep dropping/wobbling the kettlebell on my left side. So doing all 10 get ups with the 16kg until next weekend before starting incorporating the 24kg.
    Doing get-ups with the 24kg on a warm flat floor on a yoga mat at my girlfriends place is much easier, but I guess it's time to stop whinging and just do more get-ups.

    Still having plans to do "Simple" by mid February, going to focus on that and keep eating clean but not going hungry.
    Eating about 2500kcal a day. With S&S + walks I don't think it's healthy to eat less, my body sometimes "screams" for food. not sugar or junk food, more like "Just one more egg, just a few more meatballs please!"
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    masa, Philippe Geoffrion and DCM like this.
  11. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Welcome to the forum @Dekapon!!!! From one big guy to another, keep walking, just keep walking. Do speed walking intervals, and do long, slow distance walks for a while. The walking is better for you until you get some weight off, and the wear & tear on your whole body will be much less.

    Keep up the good work with the kettlebells. If you are struggling with the TGU, there is a great program you can follow:

    How to Get Better at Everything by Training Multiple Get-Ups
    PaulAtreides, DCM and Dekapon like this.
  12. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    The last two sessions I've done:
    10 halos with 16kg
    5 Prying goblet squats with 32kg
    20 swings with 32kg
    10 Turkish get-ups with 24kg
    80 swings with 32kg
    12 military press with 32kg

    I read somewhere on the forum about a guy who could "easily" do "Simple" if he started with the get-ups, so decided to try doing them after the warm up, since my get-up is not nearly as strong as my swings and presses. Seems to work, and going to do it like this until I manage to do get-ups with the 32kg. Did a failed attempt with the 32kg yesterday. =/
    The advantage with doing the get-ups first for me is my glasses doesn't fog up and I can do them without being to winded. But doing 80 swings after 10 get-ups feels heavy on my thigh muscles.

    Achieving "Simple" in one month seems impossible, but should be able to do 100 swings in 5 min by then at least...
    Have decided to focus on the "Simple"-goal instead of fat loss. I continue to eat clean but going hungry is hard, so I just eat properly, not excessive, until I'm full.

    I haven't lost more weight, but I've never felt this good in over 10 years. I feel strong, have more energy, not that stressed, no more upset stomach, sleeping better, constantly horny(!), longing more for spring than the next time I get to eat chocolate and sometimes, just for a short moment, I feel... "Happy"!?o_O
    masa, Waryrenn, DCM and 2 others like this.
  13. Philippe Geoffrion

    Philippe Geoffrion More than 500 posts

    Welcome @Dekapon !

    Very glad to hear you're enjoying training and make great progress! I think walking is a perfect thing to do for anyone, especially in such a serene place as the picture you posted! I'm no expert on kettlebells and there are far too many on this site for my advice to be relevant, but I think working the technique with the lighter bell for a while until the movement becomes second nature is the way to go. It is a strange movement, and the body probably just needs time to get the rhythm of it down. There are many core and stability components and seeing as your press is strong, working with the lighter bell for a couple of weeks will probably see you graduate to the higher one in not too long. Keep it up!
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  14. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    So... good news first. I did my first get-ups with 32kg yesterday, six of them. :)

    The Bad:
    I haven't trained as much as I've wanted and have eaten a lot of food the last couple of weeks. =/

    I had to go to the hospital last week to remove a kidney stone. It went fine but was very painful, especially the following two days. And getting anesthesia 6 times in the spine with a needle and then being paralyzed from the chest down for 5 hours is the stuff of my nightmares!
    The week leading up to my operation was stressful because I had pain in the kidneys and was worried about the operation. I don't like hospitals.
    Two days after my operation I was told I could train again (and have sex) so I went over to my girlfriend... :rolleyes:
    But we only cuddled and trained, to much pain and I noticed while doing get-ups that my balance was off and almost dropped the 24kg kettlebell on the floor. Suspecting that my body wasn't fully recovered. Didn't train again until yesterday and ate a lot of, although heathy, food. But also some homemade non-bake cocoa oatmeal cookies (swedish comfort food). Probably ate around 3000 kcal a day.

    The Weird:
    Last week they called from the hospital to tell me my operation was canceled/postponed because I was too fat. They only use BMI and 180 cm at 140kg doesn't look good on paper. The nurse booked a meeting with the anesthesiologist the following day. When I got in to see him he asked me:
    -"Why are you here?"
    I said because the nurse said my BMI was too high I couldn't have my operation, and said I was in a great deal of pain and wondered how much weight I had to loose before they could operate. He looked at me and frowned and made an appointment for my operation the next day.o_O

    And with only four training sessions, two of them light, the past two weeks I could do get-ups with the 32kg yesterday. Started by doing two with the 24kg, then I did six with the 32kg and it didn't feel too heavy, quite manageable actually.
    After I'd showered I tried to fit in my old W40 jeans, something I've tried to do since before Christmas, and I almost could button them! Last time I tried I had about 8cm to go, now it was about 2cm. :eek:
    The most logical explanation is that the forest hobs have snuck in at night and stretched my jeans, should probably feed them better...
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  15. Philippe Geoffrion

    Philippe Geoffrion More than 500 posts

    Congrats on the Get Up improvement! Hope you recover from your ailments soon!
    Dekapon likes this.
  16. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    So mid-February came and went. I tried doing "simple" but could only do 40 swings @ 10 swings/30 seconds before I was gassed out. Completed the 100 swings in 8:30 min. Did another test two days after and got the time down to 8min for 100 swings. My muscles were okay from the exertion but my heart/breathe/stamina couldn't manage it.
    I'm thinking of trying to do my swings with a timer and doing them everytime in under 10 min to train my stamina.

    I've ordered a 40kg kettlebell as a consolation prize, it was going to be a reward but... :oops:
    My grip feels strong swinging the 32kg, huge difference from when I got it, the prying goblet squats starting to feel a bit to light and I can press the 32kg in sets of 5 every time now so doesn't seem unreasonable to go up to the 40kg.

    I think I gained about 1-2 kg of fat. Haven't been able to keep the diet, to many sugary threats beside the healthy diet, albeit not so much at it used to be. Been a bit depressed since finding out my girlfriend been cheating on me for the last 10 months, my "sick leave"-money isn't going to be paid out and my car broke down.:(
    I don't have a scale at home so been using my parents bathroom scale with low battery about once a week to measure myself before family sunday dinner. But can't fit in my W40 jeans yet so something hasn't been working according to plan

    Thinking about going to see a nutritionist and do some testing. Would like to know my body fat percentage and to talk to a professional. When I use online calorie-counters and I fill in my weight, height and age the numbers are insane. 350kcal for a 30min walk and 460kcal for 30min of heavy weight lifting and I need 3670kcal/day (!) to keep my current weight and eating 160g of protein/day. This can't be accurate, thinking the graph's only works for "normal" people, not for fat people.
    The damage I've done to my body doesn't get fixed in a few months.
    I guess I just have to keep going and take it slow, or as we say here in Sweden,
    "Hurry Up, Carefully!"
  17. Mirek

    Mirek Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    That's it! (y)
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  18. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    You might be overdoing it, especially after major, invasive surgery. Don't beat yourself up too much, allow your body to heal, then look to make progress once again. Remember, the book says challenge yourself occasionally, not daily. Besides, in S&S it says, "Every two weeks take a kettlebell one or more sizes lighter than the one you are currently are trying to take the same kettlebell.....just an observation.

    As far as the weight loss, be patient. You didn't gain the extra weight overnight, and it is always harder to lose than gain. Stay the course and watch for little things, like going to the next notch on your belt, shirts fitting differently....progress will come, with patience and regular practice.

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  19. Dekapon

    Dekapon Triple-Digit Post Count

    Thanks Michael. But I wouldn't call removing a kidney stone "major surgery", you just get local anesthesia and they stick up a tube and remove the stone with a collapsible net. Very discomforting and painful, but open heart surgery it's not. I'm just a winy bitch who doesn't like hospitals or pain. :confused:
    But I get your point.

    I only tested the swings twice with a days rest in between. now back to normal resting period between sets. Doing 100 swings in 8min is no problem. But long way to go to get it down to 5min. Need more stamina.

    What I've done wrong is I started to buy small amounts of candy or a small bag of crisps to threat myself 3-4 times a week and not doing the morning walks everyday, just 3-4 times a week.
    80g of high quality organic (expensive) gummy bears or 40g of Pringel's and eating it after dinner the days I trained. In theory it should've worked... but It's like an alcoholic trying to only have one shot of vodka a day, too easy to fall of the wagon. Going to try to be sugar-free for the rest of March.

    My gym and some rabbits.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  20. Mirek

    Mirek Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I really like your gym. Looks like my grandma's yard plus kettlebells.
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