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Kettlebell Semester goals

Wolv3rus

Level 2 Valued Member
Comrades,

Later this week I'll move to another town for one semester and want to achieve (or at least come close to) Timeless Simple AND put on some muscle, too. 1,86m at ~72kg isn't that much and while I look athletic I'd like to put a little frame on.

Since the gym at the campus is closed I'll have to bring my own equipment, a 24kg and a 32kg KB, some elastic bands and a doorway pull-up bar.
I can do clean get ups with the 24 and 6-7x10 swings with the 32 with long pauses (not timed, using the talk test), I can't press the 24 though yet.

I stumbled upon some calisthenics guys on YT who use high volume training to achieve hypertrophy and want to give it a shot for the following 6 months.

How would you guys structure such a workout?

My main ideas were:
1.
S&S every other day
High rep calisthenics on the non-S&S days

2.
S&S every day and low rep calisthenics every day, too, slowly increasing the daily reps

3.
Split it into anterior and posterior workouts, i.e.
swings+pull/chin ups+ rows 2-3 times a week
And
Get ups, push up variations and squats

I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Thanks, Joe
 

jozko

Level 5 Valued Member
I wouldn't train more than 4 times a week if I wanted to gain weight. Similarly, S&S is not particularly good for this purpose too. How far are you from military press with 24kg? If you are not that far, I'd focus on achieving 5 solid reps in C&P and then accumulate volume.

If this is not an option for you, then I'd rather focus on high rep calisthenics for this purpose. Change rep ranges, tempo and gradually increase the difficulty of exercises, but keep yourself in 8-20 rep range. There are living proofs that you can build muscle with high rep calisthenics. Do swings as a short finisher after main workout.

And you can do weighted split squats for legs, not only regular high rep calisthenics.
 

Wolv3rus

Level 2 Valued Member
I wouldn't train more than 4 times a week if I wanted to gain weight. Similarly, S&S is not particularly good for this purpose too. How far are you from military press with 24kg? If you are not that far, I'd focus on achieving 5 solid reps in C&P and then accumulate volume.

If this is not an option for you, then I'd rather focus on high rep calisthenics for this purpose. Change rep ranges, tempo and gradually increase the difficulty of exercises, but keep yourself in 8-20 rep range. There are living proofs that you can build muscle with high rep calisthenics. Do swings as a short finisher after main workout.

And you can do weighted split squats for legs, not only regular high rep calisthenics.
If not in S&S style, how would you practice the swings?
 

jozko

Level 5 Valued Member
You can take an inspiration from S&S when it comes to swings. I'd do 100-200 swings 1-3 times a week. However, swing should not be your main move when you want to gain weight. And as I said, short finisher (5-15 minutes) after main workout. When going "heavy" with calisthenics, go easy (or not at all) with swings and vice versa.

And you can experiment with controlled overtraining if you dare. When I do it properly, it brings amazing results. Do not be afraid to have more days off and eat more after such adventure.
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
I have had success with the below program in the past. It calls for heavy swings and KB presses, each at three different respective 1RMs and repetition ranges. I didn’t have that many bells, so I did two different push-up variations and used my 16kg bell for the higher rep presses. You could do something similar and do push-ups, pike push-ups and kb presses. Or throw in dips if you have a way to do them.

For 7-8 reps at 65%, choose a move you can do for about 10-12RM.

For 3 reps at 85%, something that you can do for a 5RM.

For 5-6 reps at 75%, something you can do for about an 8RM.

So you can do push-ups, dips, pseudo planche push-ups, pike push-ups, elevated pike push-ups, kettlebell presses, etc… You could even do push presses with the 24kg as long as you can do them safely.

On your off days, do legs and pull-ups. KB split squats and some kind of pull-up scheme.

I enjoyed this program a lot and will probably run it again at some point.

 

Wolv3rus

Level 2 Valued Member
Really appreciate the input guys, these are great answers! I think we're a little of the mark though, so let me rephrase my question, I didn't fromulate it well enough, my apologies.
What's an effective way to program swings, get ups and calisthenics for strength and muscle growth?
The importance for me are roughly 60/40 so I would like to achieve TS and put on some muscle on the way, too
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Really appreciate the input guys, these are great answers! I think we're a little of the mark though, so let me rephrase my question, I didn't fromulate it well enough, my apologies.
What's an effective way to program swings, get ups and calisthenics for strength and muscle growth?
The importance for me are roughly 60/40 so I would like to achieve TS and put on some muscle on the way, too
I'm not 100% sure what the average ratio of TGU strength to pressing strength is, but given that you say you can't yet press the 24kg bell, it sounds like perhaps the 32kg is still on the heavier side for you? Please correct me if I am wrong. I am certainly not trying to dishearten you, however, one semester is only what,~15 weeks? That's like 1-2 training cycles, depending on how you program them.

The next piece is the timeframe. I think it would be more feasible to either chase Simple, OR try to put on muscle. You can look at it one of two ways: you can either get strong, and then use your strength to put on more muscle, or you can put on more muscle, and then train that muscle to get "as strong as you look," so to speak.

So, I think you would get the best results by focusing on one thing or the other. You can still do swings, get ups, and calisthenics, but it will put a great deal of stress on your recovery to try to train for simple, AND train for hypertrophy. You have to partition your workload throughout the week in such a way that you aren't training tired/sore. Given that you will be in school at the same time (as I am) that may be asking a lot of your body.

So my vote is:
-focus on either S&S OR calisthenics, and only do the other at a lower frequency/intensity. That is, do S&S twice a week to keep the skills, and focus on building muscle, OR vice versa.
 

Wolv3rus

Level 2 Valued Member
You can look at it one of two ways: you can either get strong, and then use your strength to put on more muscle, or you can put on more muscle, and then train that muscle to get "as strong as you look," so to speak.
That's very insightful.

I'm not sure on the ratio, too but at least for me there seems to be some difference. I can do partial get ups with the 32 already (over the hand on elbow), they're not pretty, but yeah.

Ah, it appears semesters are of different duration in different countries. Here in my country it's actually 24 weeks (6 months) so I could theoretically do the outlined 20 week progression from S&S 2.0
 

MikeL

Level 5 Valued Member
With the equipment you have…
Do ROP and push press the 24 if you can’t press it.

Basic strength trg pyramid… build big engine, then make engine strong, then make engine powerful.

You are at build big engine phase. Maybe the dot just before it.

As others have said, S&S isn’t growing you. You’ll more easily achieve TS with more muscle to use.
 

Wolv3rus

Level 2 Valued Member
With the equipment you have…
Do ROP and push press the 24 if you can’t press it.

Basic strength trg pyramid… build big engine, then make engine strong, then make engine powerful.

You are at build big engine phase. Maybe the dot just before it.
I like this analogy. So you'd recommend
hypertrophy first and then strength? Or as @bluejeff put it, "get as strong as you look"
Sounds good. If I recall correctly ROP calls for cleans, presses and snatches, I can't press let alone snatch my available kettlebells.
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
If I recall correctly ROP calls for cleans, presses and snatches, I can't press let alone snatch my available kettlebells.
Some adjustments you can make:

-Swap the snatches out for swings, since that's something you're working on anyway.

-Can you push press the 24? If so, run the RoP ladders with push presses. Other members have been able to press formerly un-pressable bells by running a cycle of push presses. Just maintain strict form; in my experience it's easy to get sloppy with push presses (or maybe that's just me :) ). Always follow the standard SF advice of ending the set once form isn't crisp. Let time and consistency bring your gains instead.

You'll gain even more strength if you accentuate the eccentric phase. Just maintain a consistent lowering time throughout the training cycle (i.e. if you lower it for 2 seconds, always lower it for 2 seconds). Otherwise it gets harder to track what you need to adjust, should you need to adjust something.

-I hope that push-pressing the 24 is not out of the question, given that you say you can do partial get ups with the 32. If you can consistently do your 5 reps per side with the 24 for S&S, imo you shouldn't have a real issue push-pressing it. If so, then post some form checks here for getups and push presses.
 

Wolv3rus

Level 2 Valued Member
-Swap the snatches out for swings, since that's something you're working on anyway.

-Can you push press the 24? If so, run the RoP ladders with push presses.
Thanks a lot mate, I'll definitely give this a try! I'll have to look up the specifics of the program, it's been a while since I read the book, but this sounds really good.

Never tried to push press it, but it should work, if not I'll start with calisthenics and (partial) get ups till it does
 

MikeL

Level 5 Valued Member
I like this analogy. So you'd recommend
hypertrophy first and then strength? Or as @bluejeff put it, "get as strong as you look"
Sounds good. If I recall correctly ROP calls for cleans, presses and snatches, I can't press let alone snatch my available kettlebells.
Yes. And exactly as described in Bluejeffs following post.

If you consider basic/common strength training, generally, you build a base of muscular endurance (train to train), you then build muscles in a hypertrophy phase (train to train), then achieve the potential of that muscle with a strength cycle (train to perform) before power work (peak).

Now that’s not pureblood StrongFirst -that’s just basic sports science. You can do this with StrongFirst through a push press / banded pull up / swings “substituted” RoP, then a run of stricter RoP and maybe finish up with Soju and Tuba?

I just don’t think that TS is in your goals of you’re honest with yourself. You say semester, so you’re young? Student? You want to build some muscle but you also want to subscribe to SF principles (good on you, you’ve done some reading). TS is a desired standard round here as a gateway drug to other programmes. But honestly, train for what you want. You want to get jacked with kettlebells and build some traps, lats, and be able to do something with that muscle? Don’t do S&S.

Also don’t skip the swings, high intensity and high Rep swings are magic. It’s like a deadlift, and Real Men Deadlift (poster I saw at 16, been occupying free space in my mind for a long time) - the movement is full body. You’ll get bigger in the right place and stop getting bigger in the wrong ones.
 
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