Seriously, what exercises does StrongFirst advocate for Dumbbells???

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Once, @Pavel Macek gave me a comparison : a tripod, with barbells, bodyweight and kettlebells. He wisely explained that there is not a tool "better or worse" than another. The difference is in the use you do, and the mix you want. Everything is a matter of principles.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

John Grahill

Level 6 Valued Member
I concur with the others. I look forward to seeing some more dumbbell programs.

Because of their "clumsy" and awkward feel they offer a nice change of pace and challenge.
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
I grabbed a light dumbbell today and did a short demo of 3 variations of the dumbbell swing.

Different than a kettlebell swing? Same, but different. As Chief said, tools may change, but principles remain, because StrongFirst is a principle based system.

This is one of my drills of choice when I travel, visit a gym (fitness centre... spa... whatever) and there are no kettlebells around.

 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Great video !

When you bring the db down, would it be interesting to add a press ?
Then we would have something like: swing > db "high" (arm lock) > db "at shoulder level" (rack position) > press (arm lock) > db "at shoulder lever" > "end of swing".

By the way, I enjoy the music ;)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
@pet' One of the Herman Goerner's Chains? > dumbbell swing > rack > press > rack > clean > press >rack > finish.

Of course, why not. Goerner the Mighty preferred kettlebell, but occasionaly he did his Chain with dumbbells as well. And btw. his swing record (from 1910) was 220 pounds (! [!!!]). We do not know if dumbbell (like on the video above), or kettlebell (= what we call snatch today, done with hike pass/backswing).
 

El Cid

Level 3 Valued Member
@Kozushi Not a Strong First method video, but here is a novel look at a circuit that includes swings, windmills, Cossacks, etc. with a dumbbell:


Like others I'm really looking forward to what Pavel M. has in the pipeline for dumbbell training!
 

John Grahill

Level 6 Valued Member
Pavel, that was an excellent display of what I meant by the dumbbell swing resembling a kettlebell snatch, although there are some differences. Additionally it appears the old time strong men preferred lower rep sets of it as a way to develop power. It's a great movement and I found my strength improved quickly with it.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Pavel Macek, I have experimented in the past with uneven loading of a plate-loaded dumbbell for swings - more weight on the back side makes it a bit more like a kettlebell to swing. It was long enough ago and I did little enough of it that I don't remember much more than that - I mention it only to suggest you try it if you haven't already.

-S-
 

JeffC

Level 7 Valued Member
One Hand Snatch is an awesome exercise. Straight arm, Bent arm, or Olympic style all good variations. Nice looking Straight Arm Snatch @Pavel Macek.

Interesting article I had bookmarked.
The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban: The One Hand Snatch - David Willoughby

I used Circus Dumbell Presses a lot with loadable thick grip handles. Usually after barbell military press, or in a pressing medley on a strongman day. I miss strongman days the most.
 
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Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
@John Grahill Agreed John, thank you.

@Steve Freides Yes, I have tried it - so called "British style". At some point the gauntlet is needed to protect the forearm, plus, according experts, the difference between British and classical French style I demonstrate is only about 6 %.

@Geoff Chafe oldtime strongmen (Sandow, Saxon, Inch... ) called this exercise a swing. Snatch would be from the floor straight up, with bent arm, like in the excellent article you have posted- thank you!
 
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Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
@Geoff Chafe If my memory serves me well, Klein's Super-Physique features - and calls it - swing as well. Two-Arm Swing, done with two arms, straight legs (!), and continuously.
 

JeffC

Level 7 Valued Member
Additionally it appears the old time strong men preferred lower rep sets of it as a way to develop power. It's a great movement and I found my strength improved quickly with it.
Goerner preformed the One Arm Swing for 48 continuous reps with 50kg. Oldtime Strongmen pushed high reps a lot on all sorts of lifts.
 

John Grahill

Level 6 Valued Member
Geoff, I concur with Pavel regarding Goerner as I thought that was with a kettlebell. Certainly could be wrong! Dumbbells are not easy to use in high rep ballistics as form breaks down quite easily.
 

JeffC

Level 7 Valued Member
@John Grahill and @Pavel Macek You are correct. The Oldtime Strongmen referred to swinging a dumbell from the ground to overhead, with a locked out arm, the One Hand Swing, but Goerners record of 48 reps in succession with a 50kg dumbell stands.

It says in succession. Not sure if it is ballistic or from a dead stop:

"As to REPETITION one-arm snatches, Alexander Aberg, a Russian heavyweight wrestler and weightlifter who was a foster-brother of Lurich, snatched a barbell of 41 kg (90.38 lbs.) 53 times in succession and 49.5 kg. (109.12 lbs.) 30 times. For comparison with these lifts there is Hermann Goerner’s One Hand SWING of a dumbell weighing 50 kg. (110.23 lbs.), 48 times in succession. And the poundage possible in a Swing is slightly LESS than that in a Snatch."

"The greatest one-hand swing performer on record was, as was previously indicated, the German heavyweight, Hermann Goerner. While still an amateur lifter, Goerner, in 1920, at a bodyweight of 220 ½ pounds, swung a solid lead dumbbell equal in poundage to his own bodyweight (100 kilos). This, taking into account his weight/height (220.5 – 73.0, or 3.021) and the year (1920) he made his lift, gives him the exceedingly high rating of 87.9%. This lift of Goerner’s, incidentally, rests on the published statement of Tromp van Diggelen, as it is not listed in Edgar Mueller’s biography, “Goerner the Mighty”. The various other swing lifts by Goerner therein recounted, however, indicate conclusively that he was capable of a single dumbbell swing of a least 100 kilos, possibly more."

-David Willoughby-

I do not know if the dumbell was unevenly loaded, but I would assume so as was the style of the day, and allows for the most weight.
 
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thegoldengod

Level 3 Valued Member
Thank you for this thread, helps when working out at a gym while traveling!

@Pavel Macek what is the difference/tradeoff between your swing and a dumbbell snatch you see in Crossfit?
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Thank you for this thread, helps when working out at a gym while traveling!

@Pavel Macek what is the difference/tradeoff between your swing and a dumbbell snatch you see in Crossfit?
Different exercises, both good. However, the way I teach and use dumbbell snatch is again different - not high rep so called "HIIT", but true power training. Also, I teach different catching positions - muscle, power, olympic, split, staggered squat. Check out an article I just published on dumbbell snatch: George Hackenschmidt: One Hand [Dumbbell] Snatch [1908] | SIMPLEXSTRONG

Dumbell swing is more difficult than the snatch, but the shoulder ends in a better position for a press from top down and up, plus one of the greatest chains, "Goerner's chain" (swing > press > clean > press).
 
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