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Barbell SFL testing

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wespom9

wespom9

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I just had a query regarding the technique testing for the SFL. I can't help but notice the 5 rep technique tests and how "easy" the bodyweight back squat is versus the perceived difficulty of the 2/3 bodyweight military press. Maybe it's just me, but is the 2/3 MP way more challenging than a body weight squat?
 
@wespom9, I don't know, but I suspect the standards are, like many things, going to be easier on some lifts for some people than for others.

-S-
 
I would agree the squat weight is easier than the press weight, for the women's standard as well (3/4 bodyweight back squat and 1/2 bodyweight press), but both are relatively moderate. For technique testing it just has to be enough weight to effectively demonstrate meeting the technique standards. The strength standards are only deadlift and bench press.
 
It really depends of the people.

The technique test is just that: a technique test.
The squat weight is modest for most lifters, but I have seen people fail it at my SFL, even though they were strong enough. Lower back rounding, not going to depth, etc. All about technique.

A 2/3 BW press for 5 reps is not light, but not that challenging either. Ok, I am a bit biased toward the press, I just love this lift. :)
 
To me the back squat is clearly the easiest of the technique tests and is relatively much easier than the press test, so I agree where you're coming from.

However, the way I understand it a certain proficiency in kettlebells is expected of one taking the SFL course, and it's one of the requirements. And overhead presses are a staple in the kettlebell world, so maybe a higher proficiency in it is expected from the participants.
 
Definitely understand the technique aspect of it, I don't mean to undermine it. I suppose I'm just thinking that a bodyweight squat isn't "too" challenging to hit for 5, while a 2/3 press would be "fairly" demanding.

5 rep body weight squat would require like a 1.2-1.3 bodyweight 1RM, while a 5 rep 2/3 MP probably needs a .9 1RM. I would hazard a guess there are a lot more 1.3 BW squatters than .9 MP's out there. It would actually be interesting to hear more people's thoughts on this part than my initial question.

I love the OH press too, though admittedly do much more with 1 arm than 2. I can 1/3 BW press with each arm with the KB, so I would think I can hit the 2/3 BW with both arms, with the caveat of course of improving my BB OH press technique.
 
I have to add that it is very interesting that the deadlift strength test has a maximum weight of 205kg instead of purely multiplicative of bodyweight, and that the others do not. I'd say that for a 150kg/300lbs lifter a 205kg deadlift is far, far easier than 100kg/200lbs press for five reps.

Of course this is a rather extreme example but there are a lot of powerlifters in the +120kg class in the World.
 
wespom9 said:
I suppose I'm just thinking that a bodyweight squat isn't "too" challenging to hit for 5, while a 2/3 press would be "fairly" demanding.
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Fairly demanding is the right word. It is not "heavy", but not light either.
 
@wespom9, I should also mention something Pavel said at the first USA SFL. I paraphrase from memory, but he said that we should all be aware that the strength standards didn't mean you were strong, just that you weren't weak. Real strength only beings at these levels.

-S-
 
It may be light to some, yet I've seen people at the two SFL certs I've attended fail the back squat. For some, the 2x bodyweight deadlift strength test is light...
 
Arryn Grogan said:
It may be light to some, yet I've seen people at the two SFL certs I've attended fail the back squat. For some, the 2x bodyweight deadlift strength test is light...
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Really? I think you need to have some major problems in certain areas (e.g. mobility/flexibility) to be able to display the full body strength and control of a 2xBW deadlift and 1.25xBW bench press, but fail to do 5reps at BW in the squat or 2/3xBW in the press.

@wespom9
To answer the original question. Since I don't train people I can only tell you about my personal experience.
When I first started to work with weights of any kind my 1RM in the BB overhead press was just shy of 2/3BW and I could backsquat my BW for 5+reps from the start. I too think it's harder to reach the requirement for the press. The press progresses very slowly and I think it can take up to a year or more of constant training to reach that 0.9-1xBW press while anyone who isn't completely deconditioned should be able to reach a 5RM squat with bodyweight in 3-6 months of following a proven barbell beginner routine.
 
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I would imagine there are plenty of ways to fail a back squat if it was being marked strictly for form - I think it is technically a challenging lift, the bar on my shoulders seems to mess up my senses or something, I find it hard to judge when my form is good or not.

Agree with the rest of you - overhead press is a great lift!
 
Question for those who military press with the barbell often - I'm assuming the bilateral deficit applies to this lift as well?

Based on my KB 1 arm press, I can do 3-5 reps with the 24kg. This works out to approximately a 26-28kg max, which would suggest I could do about 50-55kg barbell MP (going with the idea that the deficit is true, where 1 arm is more than half of what can be done bilaterally). I can't barbell MP 100 lbs (45 kg), but since I literally never do the lift I imagine its mostly due to neuromuscular efficiency, and with a month of practice I could achieve it.
 
I am working on my barbell press.

I can hit 52.5 - 53.5 kg for 1 set of 4 on a bar.

My KB 1RM for the 1 arm press is 32 kg for either arm (and it's not pretty). The thing I notice most with the 1 arm press is how you can involve the rest of the body by wedging your hip under the bar and getting just a bit of side press in there.

I usually clean before any KB press and the tightness of the clean really helps the press. My barbell press sometimes feels nice and tight in the rack but other times I lose tension - lot of technique to work on, it's why I enjoy it so much.
 
As far as I can tell from my experience a single kb press is definitely more than 50% of barbell press. I can single press 48kg each arm, but definitely can't press 95kg barbell. I think that it will be more in 80-85kg range.

The reasons for this are mentioned side bending and the fact that doing single press your CNS can work harder (Pavel mentioned it in RoTK).
 
I'm the odd exception to the rule.
Last time I ever BB pressed before switching to KBs was a 62.5Kg press. I couldn't even budge the 32Kg KB with one arm back than. In theory I should have been able to press the 32 or even 36, but a very, very shaky 28 was all I could do.
I think it was the lacking stabilizing muscles, because all I ever did was 2-handed pressing like BB press, bench, pushups or dips.
 
Hmm... Mine is about equal. 22kg single kettlebell press (24 occasionally on the right), 95 lb max barbell press.
 
I haven't done a lot of BB pressing, but I could do sets with 70kg about right away. A max of at least 80kg is something that I expect. I can press a 40kg kettlebell for plenty of reps with both arms, haven't tried a 48kg one.
 
Kettlebelephant said:
Really? I think you need to have some major problems in certain areas (e.g. mobility/flexibility) to be able to display the full body strength and control of a 2xBW deadlift and 1.25xBW bench press, but fail to do 5reps at BW in the squat or 2/3xBW in the press.
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These were not the same people (I was at the same events as Arryn). I think the point is that there is a broad spectrum. Some folks made 2x bw deadlift look like cake, while we've legit seen other people not have the strength to squat 5 reps at their technique test weight. Obviously in these cases there are some mobility restrictions and other components that go into the squats being challenging, but we do see it here and there. I think these people still have a great experience at the cert and take away plenty of helpful info to help them improve in these areas.
 
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