Barbell Shopping for bar question-cost vs quality

[GeoffreyLevens]

Dip?

"I know you are but what am I?"

Seriously though, first sports med doc I saw when separated AC told definitely never do dips, that they would stress the weakened AC and make it worse over time. He also mentioned couple others to avoid but unfortunately I forgot them. I do think conventional pullups was one of them though and they do seem to aggravate. Aussie pullups seem to be fine though.

 

[Antti]

I'd just like to comment on the bench press, that I think the shoulder issues for a recreational trainee can often be due to form issues. The tighter you set your back, the bigger the arch, the better the shoulders stay put back and down, the narrower your grip, the less bounce instead of paused reps etc., the less likely you'll experience shoulder issues. The bench press is the best press there is (if you don't believe me, believe the track and field coaches and some strength coaches like, well, Pavel?), and it's a shame to pass on it without really trying to do it right.

But of course, if you've done all you could and still have issues, I'm very sorry for you, and you can disregard the post.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I have read and heard many times that "cheap" bars usually warp if loaded beyond about 200 lbs/91kg. I only weigh about 115 or a bit under and have zero plans ever to go beyond 2 or 2 1/2X bw in DL so really can't imagine ever lifting over 300 lbs/136kg. Also certain I will never ever do Oly lifts, just the big 3 power lifts. Given all that, could I likely get away w/ a cheap CAP bar or similar? I'd love to use a 2" axle but I think size of my hands makes that impractical.

Cheap Olympic Bars

An Olympic Bar for home has around 300 lb to 600 lbs. 5 ft and 6 ft bars are usually rated for about 350 lbs.

As other have told you, the 5 ft Olympic Bar will not fit on an Olympic Bench, the 6 ft will.

The 7 ft Olympic Bar are rated for around 600 lb. That sound like a lot. However, they can and will bend over time sub limit loads (less than 600 lbs) when preforming Rack Deadlift Pulls.

However, the biggest issue, as per...

Steve W's Post

"Those short CAP bars also have bolt-on sleeves (the sleeves are held on by big bolts on the ends). These suck. They continually come loose and have to be retightened, which is a constant pain in the butt, and they are only found on low quality bars."

As Steve noted, this is the biggest problem with Cheap Bars (All brands including Cap). Eventually, the big bolt that hold the sleeve) will come out and keeps coming out.

Reinserting that big bolt with Lock Tight glue usually helps but doesn't mean it won't come back out.

If something happens to the bolt and it needs to be replace, that can be a problem. Bolts like that are hard to find.

You can find the bolts on Amazon; however, the threading on the bolt may or may not work on for you bar.

Which bring us to a...

1200 lb Plus Commercially Rated Bar

In the long run a 1200 lb or higher (1500 lb) Olympic Bar is the better value.

Usually the main difference between a 1200 lb and 1500 lb Rated Olympic Bar (besides the price) is...

1) The 1200 lb Rated Bar doesn't have knurling in the center.

2) The 1500 lb Rated Bar has knurling in the center. Knurling in the center of the bar means when you use if you preform a Low Bar "Powerlifing Squat" the knurling digs into your back, the bar isn't going to slide down.

"You can pay me now or pay me later."

Whoever said this about purchasing cheap items was right. A good Olympic Bar will last; cheap bar don't last.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Spoke directly with CAP. Both their 5 and 6 foot solid bars are rated for 500 lbs, the jointed ones for 350 lbs. And they did say that shorter length would likely increase the strength quite a bit since reducing leverage on its structure. Don't forget, I only weigh 115 and am 5'3" plus I'm 68 and somewhat beaten up. I have zero desire to push limits or chase strength. I am quite sure I am an anomaly here. Even though I know if you are standing still you are really going backwards, if I can maintain even a good fraction of the strength I have now, I will be more than happy. A 7 foot bar will not work in my living situation and even a 6 foot bar will require more thought and planning.

Benchpress: So far in 68 (almost 69) years I think I have bench pressed 2 maybe 3 sessions, the first two being in high school. Just not a factor for me. I will likely never find myself lying on my back pinned under the refrigerator. My goals are things like being able to carry 2 or 3 bags of groceries at once at age 85, up a flight of stairs...

I do appreciate all the thoughts and they keep me pondering....

 

[Steve Freides]

@GeoffreyLevens, FWIW to you, I consider the cheap CAP bars to still be far superior to any 1" stuff. I own and use several of those CAP or similar bars, with the bolts that regularly come upscrewed. I have an Allen wrench for each bar I own, keep those handy, and check and tighten as needed. So far, I have not managed to bend any of my bars, nor have I managed to lose the bolts that go on the end. The first time it comes loose, you screw it back in, hand tight only, with your finger, and when your lifting is done, you take out the bolt, go to the hardware store, and get the tool and then, at least if you're like me, you'll get many happy years out of such a bar.

Or join a gym that lets you deadlift, but if you can make the 6' bar work, I think you're good, and you can always get the 5' bar to start, provided you don't use a rack and DL conventional. There are many worse things in life than deadlifting with a 5' Oly bar and you can get plenty strong from doing just that.

-S-

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Many thank Steve! Appreciate the encouragement. Gym is on the table since the local is only $30/month and easy walking distance. I'm good with maintenance things and having an allen wrench handy is not even an inconvenience, just a tiny thing now and then.

Found article yesterday, something like "Should I Sumo or regular".

Should you Deadlift Conventional or Sumo? • Stronger by Science

Upshot is that (per the author anyway) arguments for either side were, all but one, a matter of fad, style, or preference and the one that counts is pelvic structure. The variation in the angle of femoral neck relative to the shaft of the femur is more of a "hard" determining factor. Tighter than average (I strongly suspect that's me) will almost certainly need to deadlift conventional (especially if they have deep hip sockets), and they’ll probably squat with a pretty narrow stance as well. With too much hip abduction, the top of their femur will be encroaching upon the pelvis itself. The other extreme, more open angle than average will probably have no issues doing splits, and they may be better off pulling sumo. With more hip abduction, they may be able to get more tension on their adductors (specifically the adductor magnus) to aid in hip extension. I thought it interesting anyway. I have worked off and on at splits for much of my adult life. If I really struggle at it for many months I can get maybe 120 degrees or so and then it really has felt as if I was running into solid obstacle. Could be just laziness but I doubt it. I have tried "Sumo dl" w/ kettlebells and did not really like doing them. Have done quite a bit of regular kb dl's and enjoy them. It had never occurred to me before reading that article that hip structure could play a role in preference.

 

[vegpedlr]

Don’t understand the resistance to the bench press. Pushing is a basic human movement that has nothing to do with lying under a fridge. If a horizontal push like the bench press works with your shoulder, why not use it? Just because you bench doesn’t turn you into a brofessor.

Or, how about a floor press? Plenty of people have done well on a minimalist routine of DL and BP. But if horizontal presses also irritate your shoulder, then it’s moot.

 

[vegpedlr]

Even though I know if you are standing still you are really going backwards, if I can maintain even a good fraction of the strength I have now, I will be more than happy

I disagree with the first part of that statement. Since entropy is a powerful force, to stand still by maintaining, you are really going forwards. It reminds me of a passage in one of Bill Pearl!s books. An older dude at his gym complained to him one day of making no progress for years. Always doing the same thing. Pearl looked at him and said something like, you can still lift the same weight and do all the moves you could years ago? How many people your age can say the same? You just reversed aging!

Standing still isn’t the same as going backwards. Like treading water, if you don’t exert effort, you don’t keep your place.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

If a horizontal push like the bench press works with your shoulder, why not use it?

Did 2 sets of 5 at probably 40% 1 RM, very easy, day before yesterday. Shoulder was like toothache all day yesterday until I found and did specific release on supraspinatus tendon followed by activation of that and some other rotator cuff muscles. Could be, if I chased it like religion, I could press. But last Fall/Winter spent a lot of time doing similar exercises and although they kept me out of acute pain, they never did stabilize the joint.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Will know soon but may have just found bar, 250 lbs plates, and two dumbbell handles for $60 in nearest over city about an hour away. If so I will buy that even if the bar is a 7 ft, bent throw away!

 

[Sean M]

Or, how about a floor press? Plenty of people have done well on a minimalist routine of DL and BP. But if horizontal presses also irritate your shoulder, then it’s moot.

Hopefully this question is relevant: if I have only a barbell and kettlebells - no bench, no rack - and train alone, is barbell floor press feasible? Dangerous? Or better off with kettlebell overhead press? (Or kettlebell floor press, though harder to scale the weight)?

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

if I have only a barbell and kettlebells - no bench, no rack - and train alone, is barbell floor press feasible? Dangerous?

No experience so this just off top of my head, but lie on floor see how much clearance between your chest and barbell that is sitting on the floor with minimum diameter weights you'd use. How much clearance is there? That's how much crushing you would get in worst case scenario. My father was an aerospace safety engineer/exec so I grew up with worst case scenario as bottom line. No steel pipe and firecracker cannons for me! And I do still have all my fingers and other parts...

Couple days ago, pondering same question I did a search and sure enough, you can buy self-spotting bench with heavy duty adjustable rails. Only $2000 though.

 

[vegpedlr]

Did 2 sets of 5 at probably 40% 1 RM, very easy, day before yesterday. Shoulder was like toothache all day yesterday until I found and did specific release on supraspinatus tendon followed by activation of that and some other rotator cuff muscles. Could be, if I chased it like religion, I could press. But last Fall/Winter spent a lot of time doing similar exercises and although they kept me out of acute pain, they never did stabilize the joint.

Gotcha. How about PU planking? Dan John has a good push progression that starts there. A static push is in the same ballpark and might be helpful.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Likely can do those. Have mostly done hardstyle planks from elbows but same thing as far as shoulders are concerned.

 

[Phil12]

Hopefully this question is relevant: if I have only a barbell and kettlebells - no bench, no rack - and train alone, is barbell floor press feasible? Dangerous? Or better off with kettlebell overhead press? (Or kettlebell floor press, though harder to scale the weight)?

I think barbell floor press is fairly safe -- it is a little tricky to get it into position on your own, without a rack, and that may limit the amount of weight you can do, but other than that, it's okay.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

I always resort to, if you need something, get the best. If you're not willing/able to get the best, than you don't need it. Why even consider getting sub-optimal barbell equipment with the space constraints encountered? I don't see what a barbell will do for you at 115lb that a heavier kettlebell(s) won't achieve.

Double front squats with two 48s is near 2x bodyweight and I would argue is more functional strength than the same weight barbell squat. Also, a 48kg floor press is no slouch or 48kg swings. You could easily do a very heavy weight program with kettlebells at 115lb. Personally, I wouldn't even consider a barbell with a space restriction.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

@Bro Mo, if you're driving cross country, get the most comfortable car you can afford. If you're driving 5 miles to get groceries, do you really need to spend that much? Maybe better use of $ on more groceries. In the end, for basic powerlifting for non-competitor, it's a steel bar and some iron plates on the ends. Good, better, best... a whole lot of that is concept and image. People do just fine w/ a piece of pipe and some cement. The goal is to build strength and only that. I can get a bar that will work perfectly for my purpose, AND 250 lbs plates AND a squat rack for about the same $$$ as a "best" powerlifting bar. No contest. I prefer avocados and grass fed beef...

KB's to me are great for ballistics but not so great for grinds. For example, I can probably squat around 120 for reps but there's no way I could get anywhere near that much into position for squats w/ kb's. DL's, if kb's between legs require Sumo and my knees hate that and with short legs the ROM is miniscule. If kb's outside legs, it is a neat trick every rep to not set them down on top of foot unless very narrow stance. In the end, bb is better for building pure strength, kb's better for explosive power.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Get oly spec stuff. I wouldn’t get anything else.

I just occurred to me that Oly plates, having bigger hole, will have bigger diameter for same weight. That means that for DL, a bar using standard 1" hole plates will be closer to the floor. Seems to me that might be a disadvantage in posting a PR but an advantage in terms of actual strength and ROM, particularly for a shorter person or someone with relatively short legs. I have not ordered yet for irrelevant reasons so this question has bearing on what I get.

 

[Steve Freides]

I don’t think there are standard sizes for 1” hole plates.

-S-

 

[offwidth]

@Bro Mo, if you're driving cross country, get the most comfortable car you can afford. If you're driving 5 miles to get groceries, do you really need to spend that much? Maybe better use of $ on more groceries. In the end, for basic powerlifting for non-competitor, it's a steel bar and some iron plates on the ends. Good, better, best... a whole lot of that is concept and image. People do just fine w/ a piece of pipe and some cement. The goal is to build strength and only that. I can get a bar that will work perfectly for my purpose, AND 250 lbs plates AND a squat rack for about the same $$$ as a "best" powerlifting bar. No contest. I prefer avocados and grass fed beef...

KB's to me are great for ballistics but not so great for grinds. For example, I can probably squat around 120 for reps but there's no way I could get anywhere near that much into position for squats w/ kb's. DL's, if kb's between legs require Sumo and my knees hate that and with short legs the ROM is miniscule. If kb's outside legs, it is a neat trick every rep to not set them down on top of foot unless very narrow stance. In the end, bb is better for building pure strength, kb's better for explosive power.

'best' doesn't necessarily imply most expensive.
If you need a watch... is the best a Timex or Rolex? For my purposes the Timex might be the best...